What if ........

Originally posted by orfeo
Labels are so easy...

You would be surprised just how many Christians are labelled as fundamentalist, both by non-Christians and by fellow Christians from the more 'liberal' end. Heck, in some people's eyes I'm probably one of them the minute I say I believe something miraculous in the Bible.

And you'd be surprised just how many Muslims are strong ...[text shortened]... e who generally had been living in the West for a number of years while blending in beautifully.

Well said.

You would be surprised just how many Christians are labeled as fundamentalist, both by non-Christians and by fellow Christians from the more 'liberal' end.

Yes, and the same thing with Muslims. Islam is no more monolithic than Christianity is, and the Qur’an no less subject to interpretation than the Bible.

And you'd be surprised just how many Muslims are strong believers in their faith yet have no more inclination to behead people than you do.

I read recently that there are more Muslim citizens of the US than Episcopalians. (‘Course Episcopalians are a dangerous lot; I speak from having been one.) Most of them just want to live their lives, practice their faith, and enjoy the same freedoms as everyone else. Most of them do not interpret the Qur’an as sanctioning the murder of innocent people; quite the opposite.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Really? I wonder why those people in Iraq hate the US, maybe because the US invaded Iraq and killed a ton of Iraqis? And was it self-defense to slaughter the Midianite prisoners, Darfius?

What about the Medianites No1 ? How many seats did they get in the last Iraqi elections ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
What about the Medianites No1 ? How many seats did they get in the last Iraqi elections ?

It's funny you should ask; the election results were a slight disappointment to the Midianites but I found something to keep us Midianite fans occupied. If you go to: http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_5_figure_1.htm

You can actually lead a Midianite army in pay back time against those two-faced Hebrews! Wanna join up, Ivanhoe for the rematch? I think you can lead a Crusade there too if that's more your style.

Originally posted by no1marauder
It's funny you should ask; the election results were a slight disappointment to the Midianites but I found something to keep us Midianite fans occupied. If you go to: http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_5_figure_1.htm

You can actually lead a Midianite army in pay back time against those two-faced Hebrews! Wanna join up, Ivanhoe for the rematch? I think you can lead a Crusade there too if that's more your style.

Is that a game site ? I do not visit game sites ..... except of course ... oh well ...... 😛

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Suppose there were people on the site who would agree with killing not based on religious ideas, but on secular beliefs ...

Like the death penalty?

I don't believe in that.

However, I have no problems with the concept of killing in general.
I eat meat (which is killing).
If someone is hurting someone close to me...I'll kill him.

killing is sooooo selective in its banning, don't you think?

Originally posted by shavixmir
Like the death penalty?

I don't believe in that.

However, I have no problems with the concept of killing in general.
I eat meat (which is killing).
If someone is hurting someone close to me...I'll kill him.

killing is sooooo selective in its banning, don't you think?

Your posts are always so refreshingly direct, Shavix ..... I appreciate that .....

Originally posted by Darfius
I'm not racist at all. And it's amusing to me that my comments came off as such. Because I was merely observing a fact.

I mean, are we going to pretend that it doesn't say in the Koran to "smite the head from the unbelievers?"

...[text shortened]... group that has killed people. A Biblically-based group, mind you.

I mean, are we going to pretend that it doesn't say in the Koran to "smite the head from the unbelievers?"

We need to be careful about pulling out verses from the Qur’an, and deciding they are clear-cut, unequivocal and non-historical commandments, and that all Muslims read them that way. The commentaries I've read (going from memory here) have stated this refers to Muslims who are being attacked (physically) for being Muslims, and that they have the right to fight back and even kill. Of course, it's just the thing that a Muslim fundamentalist-extremist-terrorist like Ossama would latch onto.

I wonder what a Christian “extremist” could do with verses like these (if they interpreted “Babylon” to mean some nation or group in the world today)? I wonder how a fundamentalist Muslim would interpret them, whether he would say they prove that Judaism and Christianity sanction revenge-killing of men, women and children?

From Psalm 137:

8 O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us--
9 he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

From Jeremiah 51:

20 You are my war club, my weapon of battle: with you I smash nations; with you I destroy kingdoms;
21 with you I smash the horse and its rider; with you I smash the chariot and the charioteer;
22 with you I smash man and woman; with you I smash the old man and the boy; with you I smash the young man and the girl;
23 with you I smash shepherds and their flocks; with you I smash farmers and their teams; with you I smash governors and deputies.
24 I will repay Babylon and all the inhabitants of Chaldea before your very eyes for all the wrong that they have done in Zion, says the LORD.

Name me a fundamentalist Christian group that has killed people. A Biblically-based group, mind you.

Are any of the Protestants (or Catholics) in Northern Ireland "fundamentalists"? Are they Biblical Christians?

Originally posted by Darfius
I'm not racist at all. And it's amusing to me that my comments came off as such. Because I was merely observing a fact.

I mean, are we going to pretend that it doesn't say in the Koran to "smite the head from the unbelievers?"

Name me a fundamentalist Christian group that has killed people. A Biblically-based group, mind you.

I'm not suggesting you are any more racist than I am. Half my point was that most of us are capable of making sweeping generalisations without realising what we are doing.

A fundamentalist Christian group, "Biblically-based", that has killed people? Will the Ku Klux Klan do?

And before you say that they misinterpreted the Bible, there are many MANY Muslims who would argue that Islamic terrorists are misinterpreting the Koran. It's the same problem.

Originally posted by orfeo
I'm not suggesting you are any more racist than I am. Half my point was that most of us are capable of making sweeping generalisations without realising what we are doing.

A fundamentalist Christian group, "Biblically-based", that has killed people? Will the Ku Klux Klan do?

And before you say that they misinterpreted the Bible, there are many MANY M ...[text shortened]... who would argue that Islamic terrorists are misinterpreting the Koran. It's the same problem.

A fundamentalist Christian group, "Biblically-based", that has killed people? Will the Ku Klux Klan do?

Better example than mine. The KKK was (is) avowedly Christian, no matter how badly they abuse Christianity. They are anti-black, anti-Jew and anti-Catholic (among a whole host of others). They justify their beliefs from the Bible (no matter how much twisting of the text they have to do). They have killed people. In the contemorary usage of the term, they are "fundamentalistic."

We should keep in mind that the original use of the term "fundamentalist" had to do with Protestant Christian denominations that adhered to a set of Biblical and theological principles they called the five "fundamentals" (I think there were five); they called (and call) themselves Fundamentalists. That did not mean they were extremists. Since strict adherence to those fundamentals seemed to others to be overly narrow and rigid, the term "fundamentalist" began to carry that kind of connotation, until today in general usage it has come to equate with religious extremism.

Since both the KKK and Fundamentalist churches (in the original sense of the term) have been prominent in some of the same sections of the country (though certainly not limited to there), I wanted to be careful that we don't unjustly associate the two with our more general use of the word "fundamentalism."

So are you two trying to tell me that there is a Muslim country besides Jordan that does NOT want to kill off the Jews? I'd like to know which one.

Originally posted by Darfius
So are you two trying to tell me that there is a Muslim country besides Jordan that does NOT want to kill off the Jews? I'd like to know which one.

Indonesia

Originally posted by Darfius
So are you two trying to tell me that there is a Muslim country besides Jordan that does NOT want to kill off the Jews? I'd like to know which one.

Where do you come up with this bigoted crap? I've never heard of ANY Muslim country wanting to "kill off the Jews". Most Muslims don't believe that the Jews in Palestine, a minority in 1948, should have been given control of an independent state comprising 76% of Palestine, but that is a far cry from "killing off the Jews". Jews were allowed to live in Muslim lands for over a 1000 years and were persecuted far less in those countries than in Christian ones. Your ignorance is truly astounding.

Originally posted by Darfius
Name me a fundamentalist Christian group that has killed people. A Biblically-based group, mind you.

Are you forgetting the christian groups that killed the doctor that was performing abortions in, I think, Tallahassee, Florida. I also believe that several doctors were killed in Alabama and Mississippi.

You may not be prejudice against someone because of their race, but you certainly are prejudice against some of a different religion. If you think that you aren't, you need to take a good look in the mirror.

Originally posted by Darfius
So are you two trying to tell me that there is a Muslim country besides Jordan that does NOT want to kill off the Jews? I'd like to know which one.

First, neither one of us addressed the official position of the government of any country. We were talking about religion, not politics (or the mix of the two).

Second, it would be a stretch to assume that all of the people of any country support all of the policies of those in power.

Third, do you mean countries with a majority Muslim population, or only those countries that have set up "Islamic States"?

Fourth, Morocco, Turkey. (They are not strictly Islamic States, though Morocco I think is at least partially one, but they have predominately Muslim populations.)

It is pretty sad if you guys think about it, not wanting to accept Christ, just because of want Christians have done it the past.

If you are waiting to see if Christians can be perfect that will never happen. True Christians are love.