12 Apr 20
@divegeester saidThere's no point in my telling you. You'll dismiss it as "just my opinion."
How do you know what Jesus said to his disciples?
12 Apr 20
@moonbus saidI am not asking "Jesus". I am asking you.
You're barking up the wrong tree. Jesus did not tell his disciples to compile "a list of minimum core beliefs." This is not merely what I personally think; that's what it is.
Do you believe there are NO core beliefs shared by all people who can - in your view - legitimately call themselves "Christian"?
Or do you accept anyone's self-identification as a Christian if they claim to be one, regardless of what their beliefs are?
12 Apr 20
@moonbus saidSo, it would seem that you DO support the "cafeteria" view of Christianity that you mentioned earlier on this thread.
Given that some denominations deny the divinity of Jesus and still call themselves Christians, whereas others claim that after Jesus died on Calvary he went to America and preached to the 13th tribe, I doubt you will hit upon one single, simple, definition which captures the entire spectrum and to which all people who call themselves Christians would agree.
You said: "Christianity (with a capital "C" ) is not a cafeteria where people can pick and choose the dishes they like and ignore the rest."
In your metaphor, which "dishes" [core beliefs] must "a Christian" not ignore?
13 Apr 20
@fmf saidWithout meaning to appear pedantic, can you clarify what you mean as “legitimate” in this context?
Is there anyone else who believes, as I do, that there are certain core beliefs shared by ALL people who can legitimately call themselves "Christian"?
13 Apr 20
@divegeester saidLegitimate in a subjective way. I have been sharing my personal perspective. People who think Jesus was a man, not a divine being, and that he didn't rise from the dead, for example, may well self- identify as "Christian" - and they are entirely free to do so - but not legitimately so in my personal opinion. That, and the other things I mentioned, comprise my subjective litmus test for the world's 2.2 billion self-identifying Christians and their 40,000+ denominations.
Without meaning to appear pedantic, can you clarify what you mean as “legitimate” in this context?
13 Apr 20
@fmf saidIt's not about belief.
So, it would seem that you DO support the "cafeteria" view of Christianity that you mentioned earlier on this thread.
You said: "Christianity (with a capital "C" ) is not a cafeteria where people can pick and choose the dishes they like and ignore the rest."
In your metaphor, which "dishes" [core beliefs] must "a Christian" not ignore?
"What is a Christian?" That is your thread title.
Answer: A Christian is one who has undergone a change of heart, as exemplified by Jesus (for example in the Sermon on the Mount). A Christian is one who, for example, not only does not screw his neighbor's' wife (commit adultery), but does not desire do so (commit adultery in his heart). A Christian is one who not only does not kill his neighbor, but also harbors him no ill will or anger. A Christian is one who, when smitten, turns the other cheek. A Christian is one who shows compassion to those less fortunate than himself (the downtrodden and the poor in spirit), who forgives those who abuse and revile him, who loves even his enemies. And so on.
Let us consider Eladar, for example. He can quote chapter and verse, and self-identifies as a Christian. But whenever anyone smites him, does he turn the other cheek? No. He smites back. He has asserted in other threads that he thinks it would be fine for the elderly and the immune-weakened to be killed off by the current pandemic; why waste resources on them, they are going to die anyway, that's his attitude. He has zero compassion for the downtrodden and the disadvantaged. "Blessed are the meek" has made no impression on him at all. He spews his vitriol and bitterness and petty vindictiveness all over the forums. It would be easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for such as Eladar to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, for such as Eladar have no compassion, although they BELIEVE that Jesus was God, that Jesus died to atone for man's sins, and all the rest of it.
Jesus did not teach his disciples to entertain a list of beliefs, but to have a change of heart.
Happy Easter.
13 Apr 20
@moonbus saidThe heart is an organ that pumps blood. The metaphor of "the heart" in contexts like this pertains to the intensity and certainty of beliefs and ideas which have a definitive bearing on the way one believes one should live a Christian life. There's nothing wrong with lists. The Sermon on the Mount was for the most part a list.
Jesus did not teach his disciples to entertain a list of beliefs, but to have a change of heart.
13 Apr 20
@moonbus saidEladar doesn't believe No.5 so he's ruled out anyway.
Let us consider Eladar, for example.
And besides, he's rejected the stuff about Jesus in the OP as being "meaningless" and "fluff".
I don't give two hoots if he claims to be a "Christian". Anyone can claim to be a Christian.