08 Apr 20
@FMF
I don't think it is very profitable continuing in this vein, my relaying what Christianity is in its own terms and other posters dismissing that as merely my personal opinion. So I would like to change tack here by asking you a question.
How do you think knowledge of Jesus's life and teaching have been propagated over the last 2,000 years?
Please don't answer "the Bible." That answer doesn't work for two reasons. First, there was no Bible at the time of Jesus; the canon was not established until 300 years after his death. Second, most people for most of the last 2,000 years were illiterate, so even after the canon was established most people would not have been able to read it for most of the last 2,000 years. So, how did the message propagate? That's my question to you at this point. Then we'll see how to continue the thread.
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08 Apr 20
@moonbus saidIt was your own opinion, see the exchange below.
I don't think it is very profitable continuing in this vein, my relaying what Christianity is in its own terms and other posters dismissing that as merely my personal opinion.
It’s not very intellectually honest for you to wait a couple of days and then loosely assert that you were “relaying what Christianity is in its own terms.” Honesty is the first part of forum etiquette.
@Moonbus said:
If you think new denominations are closer to Christianity than older ones, then I really do not know what you think Christianity is. It certainly isn't anything related to Jesus or his apostles.
@divegeester replied:
Well that’s just your opinion, which of course you are welcome to.
08 Apr 20
1 edit
@moonbus saidI don't much care whose claims to be "a Christian" you personally accept. If people whose beliefs fall short of including the five core beliefs in the OP claim to be Christians, so be it, it's a matter for them; and if you accept their claims, that's matter for you and/or a matter between you and them..
@FMF
I don't think it is very profitable continuing in this vein, my relaying what Christianity is in its own terms and other posters dismissing that as merely my personal opinion.
08 Apr 20
@moonbus saidI don't think "knowledge of Jesus's life and teaching" is enough to define "a Christian". I personally think, at a minimum, the five core claims I listed need to be held.
@FMF
How do you think knowledge of Jesus's life and teaching have been propagated over the last 2,000 years?
08 Apr 20
1 edit
@moonbus saidYou can talk about how the message was propagated etc. all you want. Be my guest.
@FMF
How do you think knowledge of Jesus's life and teaching have been propagated over the last 2,000 years? Please don't answer "the Bible." ... So, how did the message propagate? That's my question to you at this point. Then we'll see how to continue the thread.
Like much of the rest of what you have posted, people can look it up on Wikipedia or wherever and regurgitate it here. I am not interested.
Meanwhile, if you want to add to my list of five core beliefs [maybe there are seven, eight or ten, it's up to you] or take away from them [maybe there are only four or two, leave out however many you want], then you are free to do so, and, in so doing, you might come up with a definition that you personally believe is better than mine.
08 Apr 20
@fmf saidHow do you think Christianity was propagated over the last 2,000 years?
You can talk about how the message was propagated etc. all you want. Be my guest.
Like much of the rest of what you have posted, people can look it up on Wikipedia or wherever and regurgitate it here. I am not interested.
Meanwhile, if you want to add to my list of five core beliefs [maybe there are seven, eight or ten, it's up to you] or take away from them [maybe there ...[text shortened]... d, in so doing, you might come up with a definition that you personally believe is better than mine.
Did Jesus say to his disciples 'go forth and get people to make lists of beliefs with a blank space at the bottom where every Tom, Dick, and Harry can add optional extras? They can cross out bits, too, if they want.'
Is that how you think Christianity propagated itself for 2,000 years?
08 Apr 20
@moonbus saidI'm not interested in your question but feel free to apply your own answer to it to the way you answer the OP.
How do you think Christianity was propagated over the last 2,000 years?
Did Jesus say to his disciples 'go forth and get people to make lists of beliefs with a blank space at the bottom where every Tom, Dick, and Harry can add optional extras? They can cross out bits, too, if they want.'
Is that how you think Christianity propagated itself for 2,000 years?
08 Apr 20
@moonbus saidI don't see any answer to the OP here.
Did Jesus say to his disciples 'go forth and get people to make lists of beliefs with a blank space at the bottom where every Tom, Dick, and Harry can add optional extras? They can cross out bits, too, if they want.'
08 Apr 20
@moonbus saidIf you don't know, look it up on wikipedia.
How do you think Christianity was propagated over the last 2,000 years?
Are you not able to identify any core beliefs you attribute to those you perceive as being Christians, or do you just accept that anyone who self-identifies as a Christian is a Christian regardless of their core, defining beliefs?
08 Apr 20
@moonbus saidI don't think anyone I personally perceive as a Christian can cross anything off my list and still be one, no.
Did Jesus say to his disciples 'go forth and get people to make lists of beliefs with a blank space at the bottom where every Tom, Dick, and Harry can add optional extras? They can cross out bits, too, if they want.
As for things like eternal torture and the virgin birth, it doesn't matter to me ~ in terms of defining a Christian ~ if such things do or don't number among their core beliefs.
09 Apr 20
@fmf saidThe two questions are intimately related, how Christianity propagated itself for 2,000 years, and what is a Christian. The answer to the first one determines the answer to the second one.
I'm not interested in your question but feel free to apply your own answer to it to the way you answer the OP.
09 Apr 20
@moonbus saidI told you, look it up on the internet. And use what you find to address the thread's topic if you want to.
The two questions are intimately related, how Christianity propagated itself for 2,000 years, and what is a Christian. The answer to the first one determines the answer to the second one.
What is your answer to the OP? What is your definition of "a Christian"? What minimum core beliefs do you think are held by people who can ~ in your view ~ legitimately call themselves Christians.
As for my view, I have been upfront and crystal clear.
09 Apr 20
1 edit
@moonbus saidThe more you dance around with your lack of a clearly stated view and your stalling counter-question, the more I think it is you who has the...
Christianity is not a cafeteria where anybody can pick and choose the bits he likes and ignore the rest and still call himself a Christian with a capital "C."
'Christianity is a cafeteria where anybody can pick and choose the bits he likes and ignore the rest' take on what define's "a Christian".
Just come out and state your view, like I have.
09 Apr 20
@moonbus said@moonbus said
The two questions are intimately related, how Christianity propagated itself for 2,000 years, and what is a Christian. The answer to the first one determines the answer to the second one.
The answer to the first one determines the answer to the second one.
What is your answer to 'the second one'?