06 Apr 20
1 edit
@FMF
The term "cafeteria Christian" is not my invention. That is what traditional Christians call people who think they can pick and choose the bits they like and call it "Christianity." Picky-choosey isn't a religion; it's a Venice Beach pop-psych life-style accessoire for shell-shock victims of unchecked materialism.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 117413
06 Apr 20
@moonbus saidWell that’s just your opinion, which of course you are welcome to.
If you think new denominations are closer to Christianity than older ones, then I really do not know what you think Christianity is. It certainly isn't anything related to Jesus or his apostles.
06 Apr 20
@moonbus saidYes. I have no time for the claims that "picky-choosey" so-called "Christians" make about themselves either.
@FMF
The term "cafeteria Christian" is not my invention. That is what traditional Christians call people who think they can pick and choose the bits they like and call it "Christianity." Picky-choosey isn't a religion; it's a Venice Beach pop-psych life-style accessoire for shell-shock victims of unchecked materialism.
Having said that, they can call themselves what they want. No problem.
Meanwhile, I see "a Christian", ~ and I will acknowledge someone as "a Christian" ~ if they hold the five core beliefs that I laid out at the top of this thread.
They can augment those beliefs as much as they want and be as "picky-choosey" to their heart's content when it comes to virgin births and whatever else, but my perspective is rooted in what I see as the "traditional" beliefs I listed in the OP.
@moonbus saidThis may be funny on some level, I don't know. Was it intended for me? Or do you think you are taking the piss in some way? It seems a bit opaque. It seems to me, we are talking at cross purposes.
Picky-choosey isn't a religion; it's a Venice Beach pop-psych life-style accessoire for shell-shock victims of unchecked materialism.
I will only recognize "a Venice Beach pop-psych life-style accessoire for shell-shock victims of unchecked materialism" as "a Christian" if they hold the five core beliefs I listed when I kicked off this thread. This is my entirely subjective personal perspective.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 117413
06 Apr 20
@moonbus saidWhat’s the difference between a “traditional Christian” who has chosen to belong to a traditional denomination (presumably) and thereby abide that denomination’s picked and chosen criteria for there particular brand of the Christian religion, and a so-called “cafeteria Christian” who has chosen to belong to a non-traditional denomination which has picked and chosen it own criteria?
@FMF
The term "cafeteria Christian" is not my invention. That is what traditional Christians call people who think they can pick and choose the bits they like and call it "Christianity." Picky-choosey isn't a religion; it's a Venice Beach pop-psych life-style accessoire for shell-shock victims of unchecked materialism.
Perhaps you are going to default to telling me the latter has not had a documented apostolic succession through the witnesses laying on of hands.
@fmf saidAs I mentioned, your list leaves out two of the biggies of traditionalists' beliefs. The virgin birth is one of them, and the divinity of Jesus is the other. Your list does not really make clear whether the divinity of Jesus is essential, and your list does not mention virgin birth at all. Messiah and prophet, yes, rose from the dead, yes, died to atone for man's sins, yes -- but, for all that, the Jesus of your list might still have been only a man (like John the Baptist) who was rewarded for his good works but was not God himself. For traditional Christians, the virgin birth is the proof that Jesus was not just a man; drop the virgin birth bit, and you drop the divinity out of the Christ. So, your list does not tally with traditional Christianity.
Yes. I have no time for the claims that "picky-choosey" so-called "Christians" make about themselves either.
Having said that, they can call themselves what they want. No problem.
Meanwhile, I see "a Christian", ~ and I will acknowledge someone as "a Christian" ~ if they hold the five core beliefs that I laid out at the top of this thread.
They can augment those belie ...[text shortened]... er else, but my perspective is rooted in what I see as the "traditional" beliefs I listed in the OP.
If Jesus was only a man and not God (immaculately conceived of a virgin), then it would be impious to worship him, and the whole of Christianity would be idol-worship.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 117413
06 Apr 20
@moonbus saidI think you lend “traditional Christianity”, or at least your own read-it-out-of-a-book at college version of what traditional Christianity is, way too much credit when it comes to referencing your thoughts here in this forum.
As I mentioned, your list leaves out two of the biggies of traditionalists' beliefs. The virgin birth is one of them, and the divinity of Jesus is the other. Your list does not really make clear whether the divinity of Jesus is essential, and your list does not mention virgin birth at all. Messiah and prophet, yes, rose from the dead, yes, died to atone for man's sins, yes - ...[text shortened]... rgin), then it would be impious to worship him, and the whole of Christianity would be idol-worship.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 117413
06 Apr 20
1 edit
@moonbus saidMillions and millions of self-identifying “Christians” neither recognise the divinity of Jesus nor worship him.
If Jesus was only a man and not God (immaculately conceived of a virgin), then it would be impious to worship him, and the whole of Christianity would be idol-worship.
Edit: Jehovah’s Witnesses for example
06 Apr 20
@moonbus saidI don't give two hoots whether someone believes in the virgin birth or not. People can add that to the five I have listed if they want. They can leave it off. I don't care.
As I mentioned, your list leaves out two of the biggies of traditionalists' beliefs. The virgin birth is one of them
06 Apr 20
@moonbus saidThis is what I said: "A Christian believes that God sent his son Jesus, the messiah, to save the world." That's a reference to Jesus being a divine being. It's essential enough to be included as one of only five core beliefs that I laid out.
Your list does not really make clear whether the divinity of Jesus is essential
06 Apr 20
@moonbus saidSomeone who believes "Jesus was only a man" is not "a Christian" to my way of thinking. I don't think the "immaculately conceived of a virgin" is essential or definitive.
If Jesus was only a man and not God (immaculately conceived of a virgin), then it would be impious to worship him, and the whole of Christianity would be idol-worship.
06 Apr 20
@moonbus saidWell, this is what I said to you in an earlier post:
Your list does not really make clear whether the divinity of Jesus is essential, and your list does not mention virgin birth at all. Messiah and prophet, yes, rose from the dead, yes, died to atone for man's sins, yes -- but, for all that, the Jesus of your list might still have been only a man (like John the Baptist) who was rewarded for his good works but was not God himself.
"If someone doesn't believe that Jesus was a divine being, i.e. God incarnate or the "Son of God", or if they don't believe in the Trinity concept or in something along the lines of divegeester's not-the-Trinity-thing or something adjecent [in terms of divinity] to that, then I don't perceive them as a Christian."
You just seem to be asking me about the same thing again.
@moonbus saidThose who you see as being members of "traditional Christianity" can add things to my list all they want.
So, your list does not tally with traditional Christianity.
I don't need to worry too much about what they add, and I don't need to worry about what they think I left out.
It's not necessary ~ for me ~ to feel that those who YOU see as being members of "traditional Christianity" agree with me.
If they don't subscribe to the five beliefs I listed, then such people describing themselves as members of "traditional Christianity" is neither here nor there, as far as I am concerned.