1. Standard memberwormwood
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    27 Feb '08 01:271 edit
    Originally posted by serigado
    I can get evolution into ANY hard headed guy/gal out there.
    these people don't respond to logic or facts, they respond to authority and emotion. and here's the kicker: they actually admire a person who can put a belief ahead of concrete, empirical evidence.

    it doesn't matter how clearly or accurately you provided a logical description of how the process of evolution is unavoidable. it's still your word against the word of a religious authority, and a belief wins that one every time.

    I've never seen a religious person give an inch to a fact that conflicts with his favourite doctrine. no matter how ridiculous the doctrine is. tom cruise is not going to see the ludicrousness of the scientology doctrine. that's just not the way it works.
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    27 Feb '08 01:44
    Originally posted by wormwood
    these people don't respond to logic or facts, they respond to authority and emotion. and here's the kicker: they actually admire a person who can put a belief ahead of concrete, empirical evidence.

    it doesn't matter how clearly or accurately you provided a logical description of how the process of evolution is unavoidable. it's still ...[text shortened]... ng to see the ludicrousness of the scientology doctrine. that's just not the way it works.
    I'll get it to the point where they have to deny reality or logic. Some aren't that stupid and will realize they might be wrong.
    I'm not even asking them to deny their gods. It's only their own personal interpretation and beliefs that might be wrong.
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    27 Feb '08 01:47
    Originally posted by wormwood
    these people don't respond to logic or facts, they respond to authority and emotion. and here's the kicker: they actually admire a person who can put a belief ahead of concrete, empirical evidence.

    it doesn't matter how clearly or accurately you provided a logical description of how the process of evolution is unavoidable. it's still ...[text shortened]... ng to see the ludicrousness of the scientology doctrine. that's just not the way it works.
    I agree with you for the most part that if someone is convinced in anything then they will ignore all evidence to the contrary.

    However, it does happen that people change their beliefs on occasion. I don't hold up much hope on a forum like this though.
  4. Standard memberwormwood
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    27 Feb '08 02:06
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    However, it does happen that people change their beliefs on occasion. I don't hold up much hope on a forum like this though.
    I think it's more a result of inner conflict, outside pressure will just fortify the denial.

    for what it's worth though, I fully support freedom of religion. if it improves somebody's quality of life, hey, I'm glad for them. there are worse things than being happy and finding purpose in life.

    but I don't want a science forum filled with religion based debate, especially when there are two forums better suited for it. lets just nip it in the bud, okay?
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    27 Feb '08 02:20
    Originally posted by wormwood


    but I don't want a science forum filled with religion based debate, especially when there are two forums better suited for it. lets just nip it in the bud, okay?
    Absolutely agreed. 🙂

    Evolution on this forum definitely should only be discussed based on its own science and not in the scope of creationism vs ...etc.

    It seems so far that there is enough other topics that are coming up though.
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    27 Feb '08 02:26
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Absolutely agreed. 🙂

    Evolution on this forum definitely should only be discussed based on its own science and not in the scope of creationism vs ...etc.

    It seems so far that there is enough other topics that are coming up though.
    Disagree.
    Creationism must be debated in the eyes of science the same way as any other theory.
    Evolution theories must be criticized and put to test, the same way as creationist ideas.

    God MIGHT really have created all of this like some say. Let's put it to test. Science doesn't discard any hypothesis, nor it takes anything for sure. Prejudice has delayed science for centuries.
  7. Standard memberMexico
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    27 Feb '08 02:28
    Originally posted by serigado
    Disagree.
    Creationism must be debated in the eyes of science the same way as any other theory.
    Evolution theories must be criticized and put to test, the same way as creationist ideas.

    God MIGHT really have created all of this like some say. Let's put it to test. Science doesn't discard any hypothesis, nor it takes anything for sure. Prejudice has delayed science for centuries.
    Well said. This is the point I've been trying to bring up in spirituality. But they always turn my questions around and make me defend evolution thus sidestepping them having to defend what they accept as the scientific explanation for the world at large....
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    27 Feb '08 03:32
    Originally posted by serigado
    Disagree.
    Creationism must be debated in the eyes of science the same way as any other theory.
    Evolution theories must be criticized and put to test, the same way as creationist ideas.

    God MIGHT really have created all of this like some say. Let's put it to test. Science doesn't discard any hypothesis, nor it takes anything for sure. Prejudice has delayed science for centuries.
    I wasn't saying that creationism shouldn't be judged and debated in the eyes of science.

    I was simply suggesting (obviously in a poor way) that the "evolution vs. creationism" debates maybe should be in spirituality. Perhaps just because that's where they always have been I guess, but also so that the science forum doesn't become the "Evolution vs. Creationism" forum.

    I'd like to see threads on evolution that actually discuss evolution specifically - without the "vs creationism" part specifically.

    We're definitely not on different pages when it comes you your post, that's for sure.
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    27 Feb '08 03:38
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    [b] A simple, yet very powerful, mechanism.
    Sure. Just like, say, gravity or some such, right?[/b]
    Plus, gravity isn't that powerful of a force.
  10. Standard memberagryson
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    27 Feb '08 04:53
    This is a science forum, creationism, not being based on science (it breaches a few very simple philosophical maxims regarding the philosophy of science) has no place here. It is a spiritualitstic position, and thus belongs in the spirituality forum.
    Should scientists find evidence of flaws in evolution, they can be found here, teh scientific community is VERY good at self-policing, and so people who see this as some big conspiracy to hush up the creationists can rest easy and leave tehir paranoid delusions at home.

    MOVE THIS TO SPIRITUALITY!
  11. Standard memberagryson
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    27 Feb '08 04:55
    Originally posted by serigado
    Disagree.
    Creationism must be debated in the eyes of science the same way as any other theory.
    Evolution theories must be criticized and put to test, the same way as creationist ideas.

    God MIGHT really have created all of this like some say. Let's put it to test. Science doesn't discard any hypothesis, nor it takes anything for sure. Prejudice has delayed science for centuries.
    No, creationism cannot be debated seriously in the eyes of science as it depends on untestable hypotheses (like a creator, for instance). By depending on hypotheses which are utterly and by definition untestable, creationism has cut itself out of the scientific endeavour and so BELONGS IN THE SPIRITUALITY FORUM!
  12. Standard memberagryson
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    27 Feb '08 04:59
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    No thread could be complete, really, without some hare-brained futile jaunt down the rabbit hole of evolution. So here ya go.
    This is a science forum, the scientific community is in good agreement about evolutionary theory and it's profferred explanation for evolutionary fact. Consequently, in a Science forum, no discussion on evolution can be hare-brained or futile. A creationist nut who wnadered too far from the SPIRITUALITY FORUM may have different ideas...
    bring your crazy craziness back to the padded room called the spirituality forum, the doctor will be in to see you shortly.
  13. Standard memberAThousandYoung
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    27 Feb '08 05:071 edit
    Originally posted by Mexico
    BUT there are fossilized trees with no growth rings..... proving that the atmosphere was once perfect.... Thus that the garden of eden existed.... QED the bible is true......

    Also There are fossils of sea creatures on top of mountains proving the flood, and thus proving the bible is true once again......
    You do know that mountains have formed within the last few billion years, right? Land that was once low is raised high by the collisions of tectonic plates. Which mountains specifically are you referring to? What was found on them specifically?

    Natural selection is simply a name for the observed fact that organisms with different traits reproduce in differing amounts because of those traits.
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    27 Feb '08 05:313 edits
    Creationism is not science, it is religion.
    Take this discussion in Spirituality Forum.

    Close this out-of-science thread or move it to Spirituality.
    I gladly debate it there.

    Don't feed the trolls.
  15. Standard memberMexico
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    27 Feb '08 05:51
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    You do know that mountains have formed within the last few billion years, right? Land that was once low is raised high by the collisions of tectonic plates. Which mountains specifically are you referring to? What was found on them specifically?

    Natural selection is simply a name for the observed fact that organisms with different traits reproduce in differing amounts because of those traits.
    This was sarcasm in case you missed it.... I'm a geologist..... Thus by definition I disagree with creationisim
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