1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    03 Apr '14 02:00
    What is Truth?

    "A Proposed Definition of Truth: In defining truth, it is first helpful to note what truth is not:

    Truth is not simply whatever works. This is the philosophy of pragmatism – an ends-vs.-means-type approach. In reality, lies can appear to “work,” but they are still lies and not the truth.

    Truth is not simply what is coherent or understandable. A group of people can get together and form a conspiracy based on a set of falsehoods where they all agree to tell the same false story, but it does not make their presentation true.

    Truth is not what makes people feel good. Unfortunately, bad news can be true.

    Truth is not what the majority says is true. Fifty-one percent of a group can reach a wrong conclusion.

    Truth is not what is comprehensive. A lengthy, detailed presentation can still result in a false conclusion.

    Truth is not defined by what is intended. Good intentions can still be wrong.

    Truth is not how we know; truth is what we know.

    Truth is not simply what is believed. A lie believed is still a lie.

    Truth is not what is publicly proved. A truth can be privately known (for example, the location of buried treasure).

    The Greek word for “truth” is aletheia, which literally means to “un-hide” or “hiding nothing.” It conveys the thought that truth is always there, always open and available for all to see, with nothing being hidden or obscured. The Hebrew word for “truth” is emeth, which means “firmness,” “constancy” and “duration.” Such a definition implies an everlasting substance and something that can be relied upon. From a philosophical perspective, there are three simple ways to define truth: 1. Truth is that which corresponds to reality. 2. Truth is that which matches its object. 3. Truth is simply telling it like it is.

    First, truth corresponds to reality or “what is.” It is real. Truth is also correspondent in nature. In other words, it matches its object and is known by its referent. For example, a teacher facing a class may say, “Now the only exit to this room is on the right.” For the class that may be facing the teacher, the exit door may be on their left, but it’s absolutely true that the door, for the professor, is on the right.

    Truth also matches its object. It may be absolutely true that a certain person may need so many milligrams of a certain medication, but another person may need more or less of the same medication to produce the desired effect. This is not relative truth, but just an example of how truth must match its object. It would be wrong (and potentially dangerous) for a patient to request that their doctor give them an inappropriate amount of a particular medication, or to say that any medicine for their specific ailment will do.

    In short, truth is simply telling it like it is; it is the way things really are, and any other viewpoint is wrong. A foundational principle of philosophy is being able to discern between truth and error, or as Thomas Aquinas observed, "It is the task of the philosopher to make distinctions." http://www.gotquestions.org/what-is-truth.html#ixzz2xmaNO9wo

    Definition: "Truth, noun 1. the quality or state of being true. synonyms: veracity, truthfulness, verity, candor, honesty; accuracy, correctness, validity, factuality, authenticity..." (Google)

    Two Questions: 1) What is Truth from your perspective? 2) Does Truth matter to you?
  2. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    03 Apr '14 02:13
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Two Questions: 1) What is Truth from your perspective? 2) Does Truth matter to you?[/b]
    Why have you capitalized the T in the word Truth twice in your question?

    [1] Broadly speaking, I'd say that truth is a fact or set of facts that have been verified.

    [2] Truth, as I have defined it here, matters to me in so far as it affects me and the reality in which I exist and operate.
  3. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    03 Apr '14 03:29
    Originally posted by FMF
    Why have you capitalized the T in the word Truth twice in your question?

    [1] Broadly speaking, I'd say that truth is a fact or set of facts that have been verified.

    [2] Truth, as I have defined it here, matters to me in so far as it affects me and the reality in which I exist and operate.
    Originally posted by FMF "Why have you capitalized the T in the word Truth twice in your question?" Accorded the word proper noun status since the OP is focused on "Truth" as well as to give it prominence. Thanks for christening the thread.
  4. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    03 Apr '14 03:34
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Originally posted by FMF "Why have you capitalized the T in the word Truth twice in your question?" Accorded the word proper noun status since the OP is focused on "Truth" as well as to give it prominence. Thanks for christening the thread.
    But "truth" is not a proper noun.
  5. SubscriberFMF
    Main Poster
    This Thread
    Joined
    28 Oct '05
    Moves
    29835
    03 Apr '14 03:491 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [I] accorded the word [truth] proper noun status since the OP is focused on "Truth" as well as to give it prominence.
    If you are taking it upon yourself to change the "status" of the word ~ to something different from what it actually is ~ and to capitalize it incorrectly in order to give something or other about the word "prominence", surely it is beholden upon you to tell us what you think this unconventional "proper noun status" version of word means ~ with capital T and all ~ and then let us comment on whatever distortion or modification of the word that you actually intend or are attempting?
  6. Standard memberSwissGambit
    Caninus Interruptus
    2014.05.01
    Joined
    11 Apr '07
    Moves
    92274
    03 Apr '14 06:351 edit
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    [b]What is Truth?

    "A Proposed Definition of Truth: In defining truth, it is first helpful to note what truth is not:

    Truth is not simply whatever works. This is the philosophy of pragmatism – an ends-vs.-means-type approach. In reality, lies can appear to “work,” but they are still lies and not the truth.

    Truth is no ...[text shortened]... b]Two Questions:[/b] 1) What [i]is Truth from your perspective? 2) Does Truth matter to you?[/b]
    I think instead of 'is not', the author should use 'may not'. Sometimes the truth IS defined according to several of the bullet points listed. The concept of 'true' applies to many different things.

    Of course, if he used the more accurate 'may not', it would deprive his piece of some punch.

    (Also, the statement 'truth is what we know' is not always correct. Sometimes what we know is false.)
  7. Joined
    11 Nov '05
    Moves
    43938
    03 Apr '14 06:50
    I say that there are no absolute truth, only individual truths.
    The truth is always relative to the one holding the truth in question.
    The absolute truth we don't know anything about. Because if we did, it would immediately turn to be an individual truth.

    Question: Can a fact be the truth if even the opposite of the fact also is a truth?
  8. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    03 Apr '14 06:57
    My usage of the word 'true' is twofold:
    1. In logical statements, a statement is true if it is logically valid.
    2. In references to reality, a statement is true if it accurately describes reality.

    The difficulty of course comes in when you cannot know 2. Theists for example often claim to believe things that cannot be shown to be true or not true. In these cases I fall back on techniques such as skepticism, Occam's razor, probability etc whereas Theists go with gut feel, intuition, personal experience, tradition, and what they want to believe.
  9. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    03 Apr '14 14:35
    Originally posted by SwissGambit
    I think instead of 'is not', the author should use 'may not'. Sometimes the truth IS defined according to several of the bullet points listed. The concept of 'true' applies to many different things.

    Of course, if he used the more accurate 'may not', it would deprive his piece of some punch.

    (Also, the statement 'truth is what we know' is not always correct. Sometimes what we know is false.)
    2) Does Truth matter to you?
  10. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    03 Apr '14 14:37
    Originally posted by FabianFnas
    I say that there are no absolute truth, only individual truths.
    The truth is always relative to the one holding the truth in question.
    The absolute truth we don't know anything about. Because if we did, it would immediately turn to be an individual truth.

    Question: Can a fact be the truth if even the opposite of the fact also is a truth?
    Wouldn't it seem that one is an apparent rather than an actual truth?
  11. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
    Boston Lad
    USA
    Joined
    14 Jul '07
    Moves
    43012
    03 Apr '14 14:38
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    My usage of the word 'true' is twofold:
    1. In logical statements, a statement is true if it is logically valid.
    2. In references to reality, a statement is true if it accurately describes reality.

    The difficulty of course comes in when you cannot know 2. Theists for example often claim to believe things that cannot be shown to be true or not true. In ...[text shortened]... ists go with gut feel, intuition, personal experience, tradition, and what they want to believe.
    Your thoughts on Question 2?
  12. Standard membersonship
    the corrected one.
    Joined
    03 Jan '13
    Moves
    8683
    03 Apr '14 15:171 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    My usage of the word 'true' is twofold:
    1. In logical statements, a statement is true if it is logically valid.
    2. In references to reality, a statement is true if it accurately describes reality.

    The difficulty of course comes in when you cannot know 2. Theists for example often claim to believe things that cannot be shown to be true or not true. In ...[text shortened]... ists go with gut feel, intuition, personal experience, tradition, and what they want to believe.
    1. In logical statements, a statement is true if it is logically valid.


    Can you list me a set of logical steps to prove that logic leads to truth?
    Can you do so without circular reasoning ?

    Can you USE logic to prove that logic will lead you to truth without assuming that it does ?

    Oh, can you respond to this post without only asking me a question in return ?
  13. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    03 Apr '14 15:39
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    Your thoughts on Question 2?
    Of course it does.
  14. Cape Town
    Joined
    14 Apr '05
    Moves
    52945
    03 Apr '14 15:45
    Originally posted by sonship
    Can you list me a set of logical steps to prove that logic leads to truth?
    I think you have misunderstood me.
    I never said logic leads to truth. I said I use the word 'true' in logic.
    eg:
    1. Suppose all cows are blue.
    2. I have a cow.
    3. My cow is blue.
    Statement 3. is a true statement. This does not mean I actually have a cow in real life, nor does it mean that my cow in real life is blue.
  15. SubscriberSuzianne
    Misfit Queen
    Isle of Misfit Toys
    Joined
    08 Aug '03
    Moves
    35531
    03 Apr '14 15:541 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I think you have misunderstood me.
    I never said logic leads to truth. I said I use the word 'true' in logic.
    eg:
    1. Suppose all cows are blue.
    2. I have a cow.
    3. My cow is blue.
    Statement 3. is a true statement. This does not mean I actually have a cow in real life, nor does it mean that my cow in real life is blue.
    However, what messes this up is what has messed up the supposed 'logicians' in this forum before. You cannot end up with a true statement proved from a 'given' that is false.
Back to Top