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Spirituality

Spirituality

  1. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    18 Jun '18 21:42
    What is your 'test of civilization'?

    There could many appropriate 'tests' - indicators, practices, standards - of course.

    Suggest just one.
  2. Standard member Rajk999
    Enjoying
    18 Jun '18 22:56
    Originally posted by @fmf
    What is your 'test of civilization'?

    There could many appropriate 'tests' - indicators, practices, standards - of course.

    Suggest just one.
    Concern for the poor and needy and departure from the selfish church Christian behavior
  3. 18 Jun '18 23:21
    Originally posted by @rajk999
    Concern for the poor and needy and departure from the selfish church Christian behavior
    If greed is removed from society, then poor and needy would likely be removed as well.
  4. Standard member vivify
    rain
    19 Jun '18 00:03
    Originally posted by @fmf
    What is your 'test of civilization'?

    There could many appropriate 'tests' - indicators, practices, standards - of course.

    Suggest just one.
    How safe a person (like a lone woman or child) is from harm should they decide to wander off alone is a good indicator.

    If women are constantly looking over their shoulder for fear of being attacked, it's not that civilized of a society. If a woman or child could go out at any time of day or night with zero fear or likelihood of being harmed by another person, that is a very civilized society.

    How to get to that point is the question.
  5. 19 Jun '18 00:08
    Originally posted by @vivify
    How safe a person (like a lone woman or child) is from harm should they decide to wander off alone is a good indicator.

    If women are constantly looking over their shoulder for fear of being attacked, it's not that civilized of a society. If a woman or child could go out at any time of day or night with zero fear or likelihood of being harmed by another person, that is a very civilized society.

    How to get to that point is the question.
    Thumbs up.
  6. Subscriber Suzianne
    Misfit Queen
    19 Jun '18 02:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    If greed is removed from society, then poor and needy would likely be removed as well.
    How does this even follow?

    Edit: Never mind, I read your post incorrectly.
  7. 19 Jun '18 02:28
    Originally posted by @suzianne
    How does this even follow?

    Edit: Never mind, I read your post incorrectly.
    Good thing you edited your post, for I was about to school you a little bit. 🙂
  8. Subscriber Tom Wolsey
    Aficionado of Prawns
    19 Jun '18 04:36
    Originally posted by @chaney3
    Good thing you edited your post, for I was about to school you a little bit. 🙂
    In fact, I think I misread it the first time I saw it, and wouldn't have realized unless you 2 had that exchange.

    When I first read it, I took it to mean the poor and needy would be physically removed. Forcibly.

    LOL
  9. 19 Jun '18 04:46
    Originally posted by @fmf
    What is your 'test of civilization'?

    There could many appropriate 'tests' - indicators, practices, standards - of course.

    Suggest just one.
    The existence of healthy institutions that achieve a globally significant net reduction in the exploitation of sentient creatures, including humans?
  10. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    19 Jun '18 05:13
    Originally posted by @js357
    The existence of healthy institutions that achieve a globally significant net reduction in the exploitation of sentient creatures, including humans?
    Indeed. I will be a bit more specific than you and a bit less specific than vivify, although I agree with you both.

    I suggest that my entirely subjective 'test of civilization' would be the improved status and security of women, not just in theory, but in visible practice and on a very real and pragmatic level.

    This would be reflected in things like their equality before the law and within political mechanisms, low levels of domestic violence, access to contraception and reproductive health services, more participation/ influence/ power in terms of decision making especially regarding things like health and education that apply very pointedly to homemaking and child-raising roles that they might have, as well as in terms of economic activity and property rights. Other relevant stuff too.

    As I said, there could many appropriate 'tests of civilization' - indicators, practices, standards - of course, and none oi them need to stand alone. But I'll throw the above dollop of things into the pot.
  11. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    19 Jun '18 06:36
    Originally posted by @fmf
    What is your 'test of civilization'?

    There could many appropriate 'tests' - indicators, practices, standards - of course.

    Suggest just one.
    'A country is only truly civilized when it produces quality coffee at a reasonable price.'

    Anon.
  12. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    19 Jun '18 06:51
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    'A country is only truly civilized when it produces quality coffee at a reasonable price.'

    Anon.
    I'd have thought that one test of 'Coffee-Civilization' would be a society that pays poor people elsewhere as mathematically as little as possible for the good coffee they produce and that then charges rich people as mathematically as much as possible to drink it. See also: "free market", "invisible hand", "investor-friendly countries", "the invisible coffee spoon"
  13. Standard member Ghost of a Duke
    Zen Master
    19 Jun '18 07:05
    Originally posted by @fmf
    I'd have thought that one test of 'Coffee-Civilization' would be a society that pays poor people elsewhere as mathematically as little as possible for the good coffee they produce and that then charges rich people as mathematically as much as possible to drink it. See also: "free market", "invisible hand", "investor-friendly countries", "the invisible coffee spoon"
    Your words sir cause me great befuddlement. (I suspect due to the lack of coffee in my system).

    Perhaps it is 'competition' that keeps things reasonable in a successful society. Perhaps the 'test of a civilization' is being able to say 'no thanks' and going down the road to purchase a cheaper alternative.
  14. Subscriber FMF
    Main Poster
    19 Jun '18 07:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
    Perhaps it is 'competition' that keeps things reasonable in a successful society. Perhaps the 'test of a civilization' is being able to say 'no thanks' and going down the road to purchase a cheaper alternative.
    The 'violence of poverty' is so often working on the rich buyer's behalf! 😉
  15. 19 Jun '18 10:31
    Originally posted by @fmf
    What is your 'test of civilization'?

    There could many appropriate 'tests' - indicators, practices, standards - of course.

    Suggest just one.
    More than adequate care for the elderly.