Originally posted by FreakyKBHYou mean like the concept of Mass? No one has seen the particle that gives Mass (The Higgs particle) and yet denying that Mass exists is impossible.
The Miller-Urey primordial experiment is germane to TOE. Otherwise, the whole thing (despite other internal flaws) is one big dangling participle.
Originally posted by XanthosNZTrue, although the Higgs particle is a theoretical construct. Mass exists whether there is a Higgs particle or not.
You mean like the concept of Mass? No one has seen the particle that gives Mass (The Higgs particle) and yet denying that Mass exists is impossible.
This issue of orgins of a life is a bit of a muddying of the evolutionary waters so to speak. And yet again, probably an area on which we can never agree.
The creationists latch on to it because it's an area that has so few solid theoretical underpinnings - and so they can imagine it throwing off evolution as a result.
The evolutionists refuse to latch on to it for the very same reason.
It probably seems a bit facetious - ignoring the origins of the very things we're talking about in the theory.
And there's no denying, it's an important concept and one that needs to be considered in any discussion of life on Earth. However, in and of itself, it does not negate the theory of evolution since it is not a necessary starting point. Evolution only requires that there be life, it makes no statements about how that life might've started.
Originally posted by amannionAlthough, it is worth pointing out that the necessary pre-conditions for life to evolve were around at the time it is postulated to have evolved (no deej, we don't know to the microsecond when it happened, but that doesn't matter).
True, although the Higgs particle is a theoretical construct. Mass exists whether there is a Higgs particle or not.
This issue of orgins of a life is a bit of a muddying of the evolutionary waters so to speak. And yet again, probably an area on which we can never agree.
The creationists latch on to it because it's an area that has so few solid theoretic ...[text shortened]... y requires that there be life, it makes no statements about how that life might've started.
Perhaps I'm less negative on this point than you. You should read "Darwin's Dangerous Idea" (Daniel Dennett, I think) for an excellent synopsis of some of the probability theory that parcels Darwin's theory - at least, that's as far as I've got in that book so far....
Originally posted by scottishinnzYeah, I've read it. Quite good, although Dennett tends to be a bit dogmatic I find - sort of like Dawkins. Actually both of them come across like preachers for the Church of Evolutionism, which is ironic given their obvious disdain for religion.
Although, it is worth pointing out that the necessary pre-conditions for life to evolve were around at the time it is postulated to have evolved (no deej, we don't know to the microsecond when it happened, but that doesn't matter).
Perhaps I'm less negative on this point than you. You should read "Darwin's Dangerous Idea" (Daniel Dennett, I think) ...[text shortened]... t parcels Darwin's theory - at least, that's as far as I've got in that book so far....
You go on a lot about the preconditions for life and so forth being around. Which I don't deny.
But that's a long way from having a workable model for the formation of self-replicating molecules. We have the basic conditions - heat, energy, reducing atmosphere. We have the basic components - organic compounds, water. We have experimental results suggesting more complex compounds can form in the conditions - Stanley Miller's work being the beginning of this. We have some interesting current experiments working backwards - deconstructing life to its simplest form.
But there are lots of gaps, and lots of problems with getting to a nucleic acid or something like it, from a bunch of amino acids and other compounds.
Graham Cairns-Smith's stuff is interesting in this respect. I presume you're familiar with his work.
Still, lots of gaps. Lots more to do.
I'm wary about presenting models and theories on this forum as if its all been worked out.
Originally posted by scottishinnzScott,
I'll talk with you about it. What problem do you have?
You would do well to stop calling people names. My "typical lying creationist" was in response to one of your slurs. You think you'll get into your imaginary heaven that way? You call me a "phony expert on science"? Well, I have a PhD in Biology - what do you have?
say it's not so!
You're going to an IMAGINERY Heaven???
Praytell where might it be?????
Is it here or there?
Is it anywhere????
And who created YOU?
Originally posted by NosracNot sure about Scott.
Scott,
say it's not so!
You're going to an IMAGINERY Heaven???
Praytell where might it be?????
Is it here or there?
Is it anywhere????
And who created YOU?
Actually I am sure, he was created the same as me and you - by our parents!
Clearly our view on Heaven is that it isn't anywhere - that's what imaginary means. It exists only in your mind.
Originally posted by scottishinnzJESUS IS THE LIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nice C&P. Shame you have to "redo" so much of God's apparent handiwork for your story to even come close to the scientific evidence.
HOW ELSE COULD YOU HAVE LIGHT
WITHOUT THE SUN?
GOD, JESUS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WERE IN HEAVEN LONG BEFORE
ANYTHING WAS CREATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IS THERE ANY OTHER CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS THAT YOU'D
LIKE ME TO CLARIFY??????????????????????????????????????
OH, YEAH:
JESUS IS THE LIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER UNLESS THEY COME TO THE SON!!!!!!!!!
READ THE BIBLE SCOTT!!!!!
JESUS IS THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOPE THIS HELPS YOU
OH, AND THE BIBLICAL VERSES WERE FROM:
http://www.khouse.org
Check out the Blue Letter Bible
There you can do research on the Bible as well as
get commentaries on any subject under the SUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Originally posted by NosracActually that's not helpful at all.
JESUS IS THE LIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
HOW ELSE COULD YOU HAVE LIGHT
WITHOUT THE SUN?
GOD, JESUS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT WERE IN HEAVEN LONG BEFORE
ANYTHING WAS CREATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IS THERE ANY OTHER CONTRADICTORY STATEMENTS THAT YOU'D
LIKE ME TO CLARIFY??????????????????????????????????????
OH, YEAH:
JES ...[text shortened]... esearch on the Bible as well as
get commentaries on any subject under the SUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you get that we're atheists? We don't believe what you say is correct.
Do you seriously think you can convert us to your screwed up way of thinking?
No way ...
Originally posted by amannionSorry,
Not sure about Scott.
Actually I am sure, he was created the same as me and you - by our parents!
Clearly our view on Heaven is that it isn't anywhere - that's what imaginary means. It exists only in your mind.
Not sure of any anymore.
It's just that I believe in God when I was 5 years old.
My mom and dad did not have to tell me the difference between
the trinity because I knew! I can't explain it. I just knew that
God is omniprescent and that God, Jesus and the Holy Sprit are
one God only they operate differently.
When I came to this forum I saw a good chance to explain
Creation to everyone.
When I was 5 was in 1965 so that was a long time ago.
No, I know even more about God and Creation.
It's really mind blowing.
I mean, one man dying for all of our sins. Taking all of that pain.
Tears are coming down my cheeks while I'm writing this.
Watch Gibson's 'Passion of the Christ'
That will give a small glimpse at what really happened.
What really happened was a lot more harsher and
bloodier.
I still will pray for you and family and all the rest.
Originally posted by NosracMy 5 year old daughter believes there are faeries in our back garden.
Sorry,
Not sure of any anymore.
It's just that I believe in God when I was 5 years old.
My mom and dad did not have to tell me the difference between
the trinity because I knew! I can't explain it. I just knew that
God is omniprescent and that God, Jesus and the Holy Sprit are
one God only they operate differently.
When I came to this ...[text shortened]... t more harsher and
bloodier.
I still will pray for you and family and all the rest.
I'm tipping she's not going to become obsessed with them and start proselytising anytime soon.
I'm sure you believe what you believe - although I've got to say, I'm a bit skeptical about anyone's ability to recall much of their life at age 5, 40 odd years later.
A Hollywood movie informs your faith?
That's a bit scary.
What infuriates me about you is your apparent lack of any discrimination about the articles of your faith. It's all completely true and you must spread this message to the world - irrespective of the fact that much of the rest of the world disagrees, and believes a variety of other truths.
It's a microcosm of the evangelical, fundamentalist mindset and it makes no sense to me.
But still, while your prayers re meaningless for me, I appreciate the thought ...
Originally posted by amannionYour daughter should be fine...unless there are monster faires???
My 5 year old daughter believes there are faeries in our back garden.
I'm tipping she's not going to become obsessed with them and start proselytising anytime soon.
I'm sure you believe what you believe - although I've got to say, I'm a bit skeptical about anyone's ability to recall much of their life at age 5, 40 odd years later.
A Hollywood movie infor ...[text shortened]... e.
But still, while your prayers re meaningless for me, I appreciate the thought ...
Just kidding.
No, a hollywood movie doesn't affirm my faith.
I was just alluding to the fact that Jesus' life was a heck of lot worse
than Gibson portrays.
However, for the unbeliever, it is a movie to see! Why?
Haven't you ever wondered, exactly, what Jesus went through
and why?
My previous post was depression setting in as I read Scott's response
to my Genesis post.
I mean, if he's read the Bible he should know some (even jujst a little
of what I'm talking about). I believe he did say he did read
Genesis, but who can be certain?
I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as my own personal Savior.
When I go to work, I work for Jesus.
When I work on a construction job, I work for Jesus.
Why?
Because I was put on this Earth to do things, and
if I don't do them to glorify God then they won't
get done right.
I pray a lot.
I've read the 'Left Behind' books...that made me pray even
harder.
Faith is a tough thing. It's just that you walk the walk
and talk the talk. Now that's the hard part.
Originally posted by NosracI was raised as a Christian so I'm pretty familiar with the story of Jesus's life. I'm interested in it only as I'm interested in the lives of other great and influential people - Buddha, Mohammed, Alexander, Hitler, Marx, Darwin, Einstein, Shakespeare, Galileo, Socrates, and so on. All of these people - including Jesus, and many others - interest me in the historical sense of what they can tell us about ourselves and facets of humanity.
Your daughter should be fine...unless there are monster faires???
Just kidding.
No, a hollywood movie doesn't affirm my faith.
I was just alluding to the fact that Jesus' life was a heck of lot worse
than Gibson portrays.
However, for the unbeliever, it is a movie to see! Why?
Haven't you ever wondered, exactly, what Jesus went through
a ...[text shortened]... It's just that you walk the walk
and talk the talk. Now that's the hard part.
My take on why I'm here is completely different.
I'm not here for a reason. I wasn't put on Earth. My origins are chance, probability, opportunism.
There is no reason to my existence.
Now, I know that for some such as yourself, that might sound horrific. But quite the contrary, it's exhilirating, because it means I have to define my own existence and create my own reason for being. I'm not relying on someone else - or something else - to give me a purpose. I create my own purpose. I validate my own existence.
No one else is going to ...
- Joined
- 01 Oct 04
- Moves
- 12095
Originally posted by amannionSo in other words, you agree that the TOE plays a role in shaping your world view?
I was raised as a Christian so I'm pretty familiar with the story of Jesus's life. I'm interested in it only as I'm interested in the lives of other great and influential people - Buddha, Mohammed, Alexander, Hitler, Marx, Darwin, Einstein, Shakespeare, Galileo, Socrates, and so on. All of these people - including Jesus, and many others - interest me in the ...[text shortened]... e. I create my own purpose. I validate my own existence.
No one else is going to ...