Originally posted by FreakyKBHYes, but you are an idiot.
Evolution (not a force, but a process), begins on its own (did not cause the universe, only working within the same's system), dangling there in the cold recess of space--- unbirthed, undirected, without purpose--- just is.
Yep. That sounds like a fairy tale to me, as well.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHPicture this fairy tale Freaky.
Evolution (not a force, but a process), begins on its own (did not cause the universe, only working within the same's system), dangling there in the cold recess of space--- unbirthed, undirected, without purpose--- just is.
Yep. That sounds like a fairy tale to me, as well.
I throw a ball into the air.
Now get this.
Completely on its own, without any input from me, no interference ... the ball falls down to the ground.
It just happened.
Now you call it gravity, but that's just a fairy story.
Of course, evolution isn't a force.
But you talk about it as if it has direction, or requires direction. As if it were something that someone else was doing to the world.
This isn't how it works.
It's just a natural consequence of having reproducing organisms with inherited characteristics in changing environments.
Originally posted by amannionYea, yea, you throw a normal coin high in the air 80 times, and let
Picture this fairy tale Freaky.
I throw a ball into the air.
Now get this.
Completely on its own, without any input from me, no interference ... the ball falls down to the ground.
It just happened.
Now you call it gravity, but that's just a fairy story.
Of course, evolution isn't a force.
But you talk about it as if it has direction, or require ...[text shortened]... nce of having reproducing organisms with inherited characteristics in changing environments.
gravity cause it to fall on heads 80 times strait and I will say gravity
and how organisms reproduce have something in common. If not
get another example.
Kelly
Originally posted by KellyJayWhat?
Yea, yea, you throw a normal coin high in the air 80 times, and let
gravity cause it to fall on heads 80 times strait and I will say gravity
and how organisms reproduce have something in common. If not
get another example.
Kelly
I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
I was merely responding to the suggestion that Evolution is a 'fairy tale' with no basis.
As I think has been argued to death - but nonetheless argued very well in this thread by others - Evolution is a scientific theory. It explains the phenomena of speciation and species diversity on Earth, and does it in a well defined naturally occurring process.
Now you disagree, which I can respect.
You've described evolution and many of the supporting foundations of it as beliefs, subject to possible error. This is of course true - science is not (despite the way some portray it) a dogmatic monolith. It's simply a way of attempting to understand the world around us. Everything we think is true or false are beliefs - but we typically base these beliefs on some sort of rational (to us) system. Science is such a system, and given the rapid development of huge ranges of technologies in the last couple of hundred years, it's been a pretty successful system.
Now I can accept that for whatever reason you and others don't accept the notion of evolution. That's cool - it gives us scope for the very debates that go on here.
But what are you talking about now, since I wasn't even attacking something you'd said?
Originally posted by KellyJayI could toss a coin 80 times and get all heads, get all tails or anything in between. The chance of getting 80 heads is tiny but the chance of getting a sequence is 100%. We are one such resulting sequence. If it came out differently we wouldn't result.
Yea, yea, you throw a normal coin high in the air 80 times, and let
gravity cause it to fall on heads 80 times strait and I will say gravity
and how organisms reproduce have something in common. If not
get another example.
Kelly
The fact that we evolved out of all the infinite possibilities is only extraordinary in hindsight.
It's like the joke about the odds of all your ancestors having managed to successfully sleep together to bring you into the world. What were the odds of that happening?
Originally posted by KellyJayYou have already accepted micro evolution or am I wrong about that?
Yea, yea, you throw a normal coin high in the air 80 times, and let
gravity cause it to fall on heads 80 times strait and I will say gravity
and how organisms reproduce have something in common. If not
get another example.
Kelly
Do you therefore claim that micro evolution is random or do you also accept that natural selection does take place?
Do you accept that selective breading is very successful at producing new characteristics in both plants and animals?
Is your claim:
1. Evolution is impossible and there are logical barriers.
or
2. Evolution is possible but did not take place (as in we are all descended from single celled life forms)
You say we are indoctrinated, but I personally think I understand all the basic processes surrounding evolution and they not only make sense to me but I can (and have) tested some of them myself. I have also seen significant evidence for the larger conclusion that all life is related. I am also yet to see any evidence to the contrary even in this very long thread! Surely if there was something 'wrong with evolution' someone would have pointed out what was wrong rather than just repeating 'its wrong, its wrong'.
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadMy gripe was with the gravity example; it addresses a force that acts
You have already accepted micro evolution or am I wrong about that?
Do you therefore claim that micro evolution is random or do you also accept that natural selection does take place?
Do you accept that selective breading is very successful at producing new characteristics in both plants and animals?
Is your claim:
1. Evolution is impossible and there one would have pointed out what was wrong rather than just repeating 'its wrong, its wrong'.
upon matter, the comparison as I read it, if gravity is true so is what
believed about evolution. I do accept evolution as it far as it has been
monitored, recorded, and viewed; however, making the claims it is
responsible for so much more is a matter of conjecture and belief.
The speculation on how things could have evolved or are revolving
around life are wrapped up in thinking that is highly imaginative, and
makes for good science fiction; however, that is where I believe it
ends.
I’ve seen nothing accept more highly imaginative stories wrapped
around things like fossils that support that evolution has been causing
larger changes within living systems over time. We do see these small
steps making small changes within kinds that does not automatically
mean they have been over time making much larger ones, since the
processes is being proposed that they do cause larger types of
changes over time, I believe examples are in order that are not on
par with more speculation and imagination, something that cannot be
argued about but solid evidence that doesn’t require someone
making claims that cannot be 2nd guessed.
Kelly
Originally posted by AgergWho are you talking too? Can I guess, is it testable? Can I know
What part of your belief is testable 😉 ? the theory of evolution is!...how is your faith even tenable if you cannot scrutinise it?..find out if it's poorly formed etc..
hell I can say that Harry the Hobgoblin did it all, and he lied to you about God...is my faith here justified?
unless I ask?
Kelly
Originally posted by AgergReally, and if another saw your post and logically thought because
I was talking to you (a logical inference one should have thought)
of something else you were talking to them, don't suppose they too
may have thought they were right? Unless there is a clear connection
like with fossils we really don't know what is connected to what. A
perfect example of why clear evidence is required, anyone can look
at the wrong thing at the wrong time and draw a wrong conclusion.
Kelly
9 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayKellyjay, based on the fact that you're the person whom I spoke to last and that barring a long since (and solitary) forgotton post by Freaky you have been the only religious participant since my last post only, and that the post you are having difficulty with follows directly from a long-winded effort on your part to dis-credit evolution as make-believe, coupled with the fact that my question was just an extension of the one I asked you earlier; logically, how could I have been referring to anyone else???...either you're just *trying* to be stupid; or its an affliction 😉 (do you look in the mirror and ask, but is it *really* my reflection? 😕🙄 )
Really, and if another saw your post and logically thought because
of something else you were talking to them, don't suppose they too
may have thought they were right? Unless there is a clear connection
like with fossils we really don't know what is connected to what. A
perfect example of why clear evidence is required, anyone can look
at the wrong thing at the wrong time and draw a wrong conclusion.
Kelly
That is why you're a theist Kellyjay...you lack the cognitive skills to connect even the simplest of dots, and as such you must attribute all things that are beyond your reasoning to a god
but having established that it is indeed yourself to whom I refer; lets try again 😉 :
What part of your belief is testable ? the theory of evolution is!...how is your faith even tenable if you cannot scrutinise it?..find out if it's poorly formed etc..
hell I can say that Harry the Hobgoblin did it all, and he lied to you about God...is my faith here justified?😕
Originally posted by AgergYou should try to engage that brain of yours so that it can see things
Kellyjay, based on the fact that you're the person whom I spoke to last and that barring a long since (and solitary) forgotton post by Freaky you have been the only religious participant since my last post only, and that the post you are having difficulty with follows directly from a long-winded effort on your part to dis-credit evolution as make-believe, coup ...[text shortened]... rry the Hobgoblin did it all, and he lied to you about God...is my faith here justified?[/i]
from another's point of view before you start implying anyone is stupid
or making claims they cannot think out properly those things before
them. I do not know who the last person you were talking to was, I do
not track your every post to know that you only talk to me and Freaky,
or anyone else. When I leave and come back to this place I may find
that my last post in a thread is a couple of pages from the last post
on a subject. I go back to where I last posted read and start
responding from there, I put the people's post I'm responding to in
my posts so that they know who and why I'm saying what I am.
It isn't a lack of cognitive skills on my part you still don't get that you
were the only person in the world who knew who you were talking to
without a doubt. It also isn't any different with fossils, unless you
know without a doubt the facts surrounding them, they are not a good
piece of evidence for evolution, you must believe the story someone
comes up with that connects the dots, otherwise they are simply just
fossils of creatures in the past nothing more.
Kelly
2 edits
Originally posted by KellyJayyour going at extreme lengths to avoid my initial question Kellyjay 😉
You should try to engage that brain of yours so that it can see things
from another's point of view before you start implying anyone is stupid
or making claims they cannot think out properly those things before
them. I do not know who the last person you were talking to was, I do
not track your every post to know that you only talk to me and Freaky,
or ts, otherwise they are simply just
fossils of creatures in the past nothing more.
Kelly
but I apologise for over-estimating you smarts...I can see that for someone like you it is far more reasonable to ask "who are you talking too" and then evade the question than to actually spend a whole second and figure it out...I have this horrible tendancy to treat people as though they are intelligent until proven stupid!!! please accept my apologies 😉