When will killing in the name of religion end?

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Richard J Evans in his book "The coming of the third Reich" seems to think it is. (A good read, by the way)

[edit; the ordinary German in the street believed that Germany had not lost WWI militarily, rather they had been "stabbed in the back" by the Jews at the end of WWI. It was this widespread anti-Semitism that Hitler played on, and expanded, which led to Hitler being elected.]

I said I'm not an expert, but even if that was the reason to start WWII, this has nothing to do with religion.

N-E-V-E-R

Originally posted by ahosyney
I said I'm not an expert, but even if that was the reason to start WWII, this has nothing to do with religion.

No? Nothing to do with religion? The persecution of one specific religious group has nothing to do with religion? What a wally!

Originally posted by scottishinnz
No? Nothing to do with religion? The persecution of one specific religious group has nothing to do with religion? What a wally!

I think you know Jewish are not only religion, but also a race. And Hitler was not fighting for a religion, he was fighting for his race. At the end he was fighting other Christians with other races.

Originally posted by ahosyney
I think you know Jewish are not only religion, but also a race. And Hitler was not fighting for a religion, he was fighting for his race. At the end he was fighting other Christians with other races.

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/mischedj/ca_hitler.html

You may like to consult this excellent website. Hitler certainly had beliefs, and they were beliefs that are startlingly like those associated with most mainstream religions. There more certainly were religiously motiviated.

For example, your statement that the Jews are a race is fallacious;

"Being Jewish is not a race

Being Jewish is not a race because Jews do not share one common ancestry or biological distinction. People of many different races have become Jewish people over the years. "

from http://judaism.about.com/od/abcsofjudaism/a/beingjewish.htm

Or

" But setting aside the emotional issues, Jews are clearly not a race.

Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA. I could never become black or Asian no matter how much I might want to.

Common ancestry is not required to be a Jew. Many Jews worldwide share common ancestry, as shown by genetic research; however, you can be a Jew without sharing this common ancestry, for example, by converting. Thus, although I could never become black or Asian, blacks and Asians have become Jews (Sammy Davis Jr. and Connie Chung). "

From http://www.jewfaq.org/judaism.htm

Admittedly, in 1980 the US supreme court did rule that Jews could be considered a race, although they also ruled that so could Italians. This just goes to show that the law is not always correct on such matters. The court decision was basically a tool for anti-discrimination legislation.

Originally posted by ahosyney
I think you know Jewish are not only religion, but also a race. And Hitler was not fighting for a religion, he was fighting for his race. At the end he was fighting other Christians with other races.

Historian Guenter Lewy describes a meeting between Hitler and the German Catholic authorities shortly afterwards:
"On 26 April 1933 Hitler had a conversation with Bishop Berning and Monsignor Steinmann [the Catholic leadership in Germany]. The subject was the common fight against liberalism, Socialism and Bolshevism, discussed in the friendliest terms. In the course of the conversation Hitler said that he was only doing to the Jews what the church had done to them over the past fifteen hundred years. The prelates did not contradict him."

Originally posted by sonhouse
It seems to me more deaths are caused by religious zealots than most other causes put together. It looks to me like humanity would be far better off growing up and out of the need for religion and taking matters into their own hands philosophically speaking.
I don't see a problem building a non religious based morality structure. I think all the talk abou ...[text shortened]... but it sure would take a psycic load off the planet and maybe allow us as a race to grow up.

"When will killing in the name of ideologies, religious or secular, end ? ", would be a better question. It is a less biased one and this question would include the killing advocated by neo-liberalism, feminism, socialism, communism, fascism and other forms of despotism or totalism.

Originally posted by frogstomp
Historian Guenter Lewy describes a meeting between Hitler and the German Catholic authorities shortly afterwards:
"On 26 April 1933 Hitler had a conversation with Bishop Berning and Monsignor Steinmann [the Catholic leadership in Germany]. The subject was the common fight against liberalism, Socialism and Bolshevism, discussed in the friendliest terms. I ...[text shortened]... ch had done to them over the past fifteen hundred years. The prelates did not contradict him."

..... of course they did not contradict him. It is unwise to react to obvious provocations ......

By the way, was this historian you mentioned present at this meeting in 1933 (!) and afterwards ? ... if not, who or what was his source ?

Originally posted by sonhouse
It seems to me more deaths are caused by religious zealots than most other causes put together. It looks to me like humanity would be far better off growing up and out of the need for religion and taking matters into their own hands philosophically speaking.
I don't see a problem building a non religious based morality structure. I think all the talk abou ...[text shortened]... but it sure would take a psycic load off the planet and maybe allow us as a race to grow up.

When ever Christ comes back and the end times start.

Originally posted by RBHILL
When ever Christ comes back and the end times start.

We'll be waiting a while then.

Originally posted by sonhouse
And which, exactly, planet do you come from? I suppose the crusades never happened? I suppose the Jihad's which christianity taught Islam, is all just a peaceful picnic in the park. You need to crawl out of the rock you have been living under all your life and see what the REAL world is doing.

I am not saying religion is not the cause of wars and bloodshed. I am saying if people followed the teachings of their religion, there would be no killing in the name of God. Because religion has become so distorted (by people who make their own interpretations of the Word) religion has now become the cause of disunity and wars.

I will now crawl under my rock!

Originally posted by Varqa
I am not saying religion is not the cause of wars and bloodshed. I am saying if people followed the teachings of their religion, there would be no killing in the name of God. Because religion has become so distorted (by people who make their own interpretations of the Word) religion has now become the cause of disunity and wars.

I will now crawl under my rock!

Most religious books have whole sections about the people who are either okay to kill or have been commanded by God to kill.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Most religious books have whole sections about the people who are either okay to kill or have been commanded by God to kill.

I would not use "most religions" without some examples. I agree that there are references of it in some books, but like everyhing else we must read between the lines and look at the book as a whole. It is very important to put things into historical perspective. Circumstances required severe discipline at the time of Moses' revelation and the time of Mohammad's revelation. That was the remedy that was needed at that time.
Sometimes you have to amputate the leg in order to save the body.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Exactly, like the use of Democracy and Freedom to Justify the war in Iraq.

Yeah, more or less.

Originally posted by ahosyney
No I don't denay it, but he didn't say that. He talked only about religion, because he don't want to follow a religion.

Besides most of the religion based wars are originaly political and uses religion to cover it.

He is free, but twisting facts, is not a good way to give yourself an execuse.

Hey, we agree on something!!!!!

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