1. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    29 Nov '16 06:01
    For many years I put my faith in my own efforts. I believed that the the only way I could be saved was to follow the rules of my church and that my 'good works' and legalism could save me. Now I believe that even my best efforts cannot save me. My only hope is to put my faith in what Jesus did for me on the cross.
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    29 Nov '16 08:34
    Does that explain why you have given up putting any effort in?
  3. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    29 Nov '16 09:011 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Does that explain why you have given up putting any effort in?
    Putting effort into what? Saving myself?
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    29 Nov '16 10:46
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    Putting effort into what? Saving myself?
    Into doing good works.
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    29 Nov '16 10:47
    Although I challenge the concept that 'good works' are good when done to save yourself.
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    29 Nov '16 11:06
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    For many years I put my faith in my own efforts. I believed that the the only way I could be saved was to follow the rules of my church and that my 'good works' and legalism could save me. Now I believe that even my best efforts cannot save me. My only hope is to put my faith in what Jesus did for me on the cross.
    Calling Rajk999.
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    29 Nov '16 11:06
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Although I challenge the concept that 'good works' are good when done to save yourself.
    not altruism then... 😛
  8. Standard memberRajk999
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    29 Nov '16 13:03
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Calling Rajk999.
    The opening post [typical of modern Christianity] is contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Apostles, who clearly identified the difference between two kinds of faith:
    - living faith
    - dead faith.

    The opening post promotes dead faith.
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    29 Nov '16 13:29
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    The opening post [typical of modern Christianity] is contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Apostles, who clearly identified the difference between two kinds of faith:
    - living faith
    - dead faith.

    The opening post promotes dead faith.
    I expect Fetchmyjunk will want to enlighten you to some of his univeral truths.
  10. Standard memberRajk999
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    29 Nov '16 14:22
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    For many years I put my faith in my own efforts. I believed that the the only way I could be saved was to follow the rules of my church and that my 'good works' and legalism could save me. Now I believe that even my best efforts cannot save me. My only hope is to put my faith in what Jesus did for me on the cross.
    The only way to get into the Kingdom of God is to follow the rules of Jesus Christ,
  11. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    29 Nov '16 15:29
    Originally posted by Rajk999
    The opening post [typical of modern Christianity] is contrary to the teachings of Christ and the Apostles, who clearly identified the difference between two kinds of faith:
    - living faith
    - dead faith.

    The opening post promotes dead faith.
    So according to you, 'living faith' is putting your faith in your own 'righteousness' and 'dead faith' is putting your faith in the righteousness of Christ?
  12. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    29 Nov '16 15:30
    Originally posted by divegeester
    I expect Fetchmyjunk will want to enlighten you to some of his univeral truths.
    Do you not believe in any universal truths of your own?
  13. Standard memberFetchmyjunk
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    29 Nov '16 15:43
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    Into doing good works.
    Faith without works is dead. So good works should be the natural outflow of your faith. But the works themselves don't save you.
  14. Standard memberRajk999
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    29 Nov '16 15:50
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    So according to you, 'living faith' is putting your faith in your own 'righteousness' and 'dead faith' is putting your faith in the righteousness of Christ?
    Faith without works is dead. This has been repeated in different words by Christ and all the Aposlles. Therefore dead faith is faith without good works, while living faith includes good works. Dead faith ends up in eternal destruction while living faith leads to eternal life.

    I have said nothing about my own righteousness so I will treat that like the wind that blows. The 'righteousness of Christ' is a misinterpreted expression which Christians like yourself use to get you off the hook of having to do good works, but God is not fooled and you will reap what you sow.
  15. Standard memberRajk999
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    29 Nov '16 15:52
    Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
    Faith without works is dead. So good works should be the natural outflow of your faith. But the works themselves don't save you.
    Good works is not necessarily the natural outflow of faith. It sometimes is and sometimes it is not. Hence the reason why James and many other Apostles took the trouble to explain it. If it were the natural outflow as you claim then there would no need to explain it and expound on the importance of doing good works.
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