Who do people say I am?

@kellyjay said
Science can explain why your computer screen displays markings that are in the shapes of letters that make up words, but it cannot tell you about the reason why the words were written, or address the information in the message.

You can't understand why people write things? I suggest you speak for yourself. If your superstitions are rooted in your inability to understand things, so be it.

@bigdoggproblem said
Well, an "evil person" is generally someone who commits many morally despicable acts, but there is no comparable phrase such as "truth person". This comparison does not seem to help.

Science absolutely can show you that someone turned up the heat to make some tea, and can address the information in computer messages, since those are all actions involvi ...[text shortened]... human decisions.

I'll grant that science is not well-suited for tackling philosophical questions.

The things we do and say play a part in how we are defined! If someone isn't trustworthy, it is with a cause they have done or said something that makes them untrustworthy. Jesus, who is the truth, displays it in all things done and said by Him. The more difficult thing to see with our level of righteousness is how fallen we are since we so immersed in it; it is all we know. We require eyes to see, the light of the world, real truth for comparison to our fallen nature. In testing and troubleshooting, a know good is necessary to know what is bad or wrong. With Jesus, we see the truth juxtaposed to the lies of this world.

Evil thoughts and deeds done by people define us; it plays out in everything! No one bats an eye when we say those who play baseball are baseball players. Liars have told lies, murderers have murdered, cheaters have cheated, adulters have committed adultery, being ungrateful, hateful, selfish, and so on. Jesus being who He is, why He came, what He did for the reasons He did them is the truth.

Using only physics looking at the material world only, you cannot give me the reason for the water to be heated. The reason for it rests with the one who caused it, not the process of heated water itself. The universe holds the same limitations for us. We can see all of the mechanisms in it, that doesn't explain why. Science isn't suited to handle philosophical questions, I agree it has blinders on when it comes to some truth queries. From time to time, people confuse a reflective philosophical statement from one that is real science because who said it. An example would be Dawkins suggesting the universe looks design but isn't.

@kellyjay said
Evil thoughts and deeds done by people define us; it plays out in everything!

Just a few days ago you claimed you were "filled" with "Holy Spirit".

@kellyjay said
The more difficult thing to see with our level of righteousness is how fallen we are since we so immersed in it; it is all we know. We require eyes to see, the light of the world, real truth for comparison to our fallen nature.

More misanthropy. Please. If you insist that you are "evil and wicked", so be it, and if you insist that you personally contribute to the "cesspool of evil" that you see when you look at the people around you, please speak for yourself. Please stop insisting that I "deserve" to be tortured by your God figure for not being as misanthropic as you.

@kellyjay said
The things we do and say play a part in how we are defined! If someone isn't trustworthy, it is with a cause they have done or said something that makes them untrustworthy. Jesus, who is the truth, displays it in all things done and said by Him. The more difficult thing to see with our level of righteousness is how fallen we are since we so immersed in it; it is all we know. ...[text shortened]... nce because who said it. An example would be Dawkins suggesting the universe looks design but isn't.

Paragraphs 1 and 2 are a re-statement of your earlier points. They still lack an explanation of how "truth" can be a person, sorry.

OK, so let me use physics to explain the heated water.

The water boiled because it was heated.
It was heated because a gas flame was lit under it.
A gas flame was lit under it because a knob that controlled a gas source was turned on.
A human being turned the knob on.
The human being chose to turn the knob on because he felt a craving for a cup of tea.
The reason he felt a craving for a cup of tea is that his brain held memories of previously drinking tea. There were mostly positive emotions tied to these memories. The person felt reasonably sure he could feel that same way yet again by making a cup of tea.
The reason people repeat actions that have led to positive experiences previously is because positive experiences feel 'good'.
Positive experiences feel 'good' due to the release of specific chemicals within the brain, such as endorphins.
The reason that there are specific chemical releases in the brain is because the human brain evolved to have those releases in order to encourage behavior that helped humans survive.

Etc., etc., etc.

If determinism is true, then it is possible that a scientific theory may explain every human action ever performed.

@bigdoggproblem said
Paragraphs 1 and 2 are a re-statement of your earlier points. They still lack an explanation of how "truth" can be a person, sorry.

OK, so let me use physics to explain the heated water.

The water boiled because it was heated.
It was heated because a gas flame was lit under it.
A gas flame was lit under it because a knob that controlled a gas source was turned ...[text shortened]... is true, then it is possible that a scientific theory may explain every human action ever performed.

He is the creator of all things; nothing was made that wasn't made through Him, the reason for being, the first cause, in the flesh. The words He spoke about all things, the things He did were the truth, life. He showed us the way to God, its Him.

You are still missing the point about the water.

Looking at the universe and looking at the water, with the water you know, people can turn the heat on. You know people can write letters, books, words, and you know this how? Experience, it most certainly isn't by deductive reasoning looking at the heat, the water, or anything else. You have no experience with the creation of the universe, nothing to draw on for your reason for being.

Looking at the material world only cannot explain its reality any more than looking at chemical make up of the ink on a sheet of paper can explain the words written with the ink. So the truth of the universe is more than data points or statistical analysis that can be found in a lab, its a person, Christ.

@bigdoggproblem said
Paragraphs 1 and 2 are a re-statement of your earlier points. They still lack an explanation of how "truth" can be a person, sorry.

OK, so let me use physics to explain the heated water.

The water boiled because it was heated.
It was heated because a gas flame was lit under it.
A gas flame was lit under it because a knob that controlled a gas source was turned ...[text shortened]... is true, then it is possible that a scientific theory may explain every human action ever performed.

If determinism is true and human actions are all predictable, what does that say about a man? We are creatures bound to behave the way we behave because we have no choice; we are as Dawkins said just dancing to our DNA? You can throw out the notions of good and evil if true, one act or another are all only coded into the human DNA no choice, determinism. I think evil and good are very real, so this line of thought I reject out of hand.

@kellyjay said
He is the creator of all things; nothing was made that wasn't made through Him, the reason for being, the first cause, in the flesh. The words He spoke about all things, the things He did were the truth, life. He showed us the way to God, its Him.

According to your mythology, what traumatic experience or event turned your God figure into a torturer?

Or has he always been one?

@bigdoggproblem said
Paragraphs 1 and 2 are a re-statement of your earlier points. They still lack an explanation of how "truth" can be a person, sorry.

OK, so let me use physics to explain the heated water.

The water boiled because it was heated.
It was heated because a gas flame was lit under it.
A gas flame was lit under it because a knob that controlled a gas source was turned ...[text shortened]... is true, then it is possible that a scientific theory may explain every human action ever performed.

"Paragraphs 1 and 2 are a re-statement of your earlier points. They still lack an explanation of how "truth" can be a person, sorry."

Truth, as it is in all subjects, is valid only as it corresponds to its reference. For example, I can say the temp where I am is 55 outside, that doesn't mean because it is 75 where you are makes what I said wrong I'm only referring to where I am at the time. Jesus, in the context of saying He is "the Truth," was speaking about our going to the Father. There is no other way to the Father, but through Him, the same with Him being the Way and Life. The whole point of His coming into this life was with intent! His birth foretold, His life described, His death, as well as His rising from the dead, were all declared in Old Testament scriptures. In context, it is clear who He is, and why He came so we can see truth, and not be tossed about with every wind of doctrine taking us here or there.

John 18:37
Then Pilate said to him, “So you are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.”

@kellyjay said
Truth, as it is in all subjects, is valid only as it corresponds to its reference. For example, I can say the temp where I am is 55 outside, that doesn't mean because it is 75 where you are makes what I said wrong I'm only referring to where I am at the time.

It's like conversational groundhog day. You've parrotted this little rhetorical gimmick countless times and it has been dispatched every time. Analogizing something that withstands empirical scrutiny - like the "temperature outside" - to your completely scrutiny-proof subjective speculation about supernatural things and your credulousness about ancient Hebrew folktales does not give the latter no kind of empirical/objective spin or credibility whatsoever.

@kellyjay said
He is the creator of all things; nothing was made that wasn't made through Him, the reason for being, the first cause, in the flesh. The words He spoke about all things, the things He did were the truth, life. He showed us the way to God, its Him.

You are still missing the point about the water.

Looking at the universe and looking at the water, with the water you know, ...[text shortened]... e is more than data points or statistical analysis that can be found in a lab, its a person, Christ.

Yes, experience, but also reasoning. Experience without reasoning is no help at all.

Good science relies heavily on BOTH.

As to your last point, I could not disagree more. I find the Scientific explanation of the material world day far more satisfying, comprehensive and useful than any religious-type explanation I have ever read.

Just as science is not well suited to answer philosophical questions, religion is not well suited to explain the physical world.

@bigdoggproblem said
Yes, experience, but also reasoning. Experience without reasoning is no help at all.

Good science relies heavily on BOTH.

As to your last point, I could not disagree more. I find the Scientific explanation of the material world day far more satisfying, comprehensive and useful than any religious-type explanation I have ever read.

Just as science is not well suited to answer philosophical questions, religion is not well suited to explain the physical world.

When you are comparing a scientific explanation to a religious one, what do you mean by that? What is the basis for this distinction? Where is it you think science and religion are at odds with the truth that one should be shunned for the other?

There are people in both realms siding with and against each other on many topics. Can you be specific?

@kellyjay said
If determinism is true and human actions are all predictable, what does that say about a man? We are creatures bound to behave the way we behave because we have no choice; we are as Dawkins said just dancing to our DNA? You can throw out the notions of good and evil if true, one act or another are all only coded into the human DNA no choice, determinism. I think evil and good are very real, so this line of thought I reject out of hand.

I think even if determinism is true, we still have free will.

@bigdoggproblem said
I think even if determinism is true, we still have free will.

If you are pre determined how can you have free will? That sounds like a direct contradiction.