Originally posted by Suzianne

He's turning around the original question into "which is real, your fake examples, or God? .

Turning around the original question?

You mean not answering the original question.

Originally posted by RBHILL
B, because B wants to steal your soul from A.

Not in the original premise.

Originally posted by RBHILL
B, because B wants to steal your soul from A.

As wolfgang59 points out, theft of souls wasn't part of the premise but then again I see no reason why I shouldn't include it. Indeed, given the traits of A, B might be *more* evil by letting A keep them souls.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Why do you object? The entities Agerg suggests are not real, they are imaginary (despite his obvious message that A is "the God of the Bible" and that B is Satan).

MC is saying "your examples don't exist but God does".

He's turning around the original question into "which is real, your fake examples, or God? Who should we actually listen to then?" A far more important question than Agerg's attempt at blasphemy.

A and B ought to stand alone here without any reference to other entites alive or dead... that they do happen to be accurate approximations to "the God of the Bible" and Satan respectively is purely coincidental Reveal Hidden Content

Now assessing these two creatures purely on their own merits, divorced from any notions of God, which of them do you find more evil!? 🙂

Originally posted by Agerg
An entity A who answers to nobody and exploits this position to kill and torture whomsoever he pleases. An entity who, for the purpose of stroking his own gargantuan ego, has set up the biggest damned [b]protection racket that has ever, and could ever be, conceived by condemning his own son (albeit somehow himself) to death - such that he may then use this ...[text shortened]... d in the spirit of rebellion, persuaded a couple of fig adorned people to eat a naughty apple!??[/b]

You're going to have to answer a few questions, before I answer yours.

1. What is evil?
2. Who are these choice of characters?
3. Where did you get this information about them?

As a lawyer, you wouldn't make it far, sorry to tell you.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You're going to have to answer a few questions, before I answer yours.

1. What is evil?
2. Who are these choice of characters?
3. Where did you get this information about them?

As a lawyer, you wouldn't make it far, sorry to tell you.

As a lawyer, you could bill $500 for the letters asking each of your questions. 😉

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You're going to have to answer a few questions, before I answer yours.

1. What is evil?
I think the OP is addressed only to those that know what "evil" means.

2. Who are these choice of characters?
They are who they are. Call them Happy & Grumpy if it helps.

3. Where did you get this information about them?
Its made up - as are the characters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_experiment

Apologies to Agerg if I am off the mark.l

Originally posted by FMF
As a lawyer, you could bill $500 for the letters asking each of your questions. 😉

Unless I was billing only for the project.
They do like their money, though, don't they?

Originally posted by wolfgang59
1. What is evil?
I think the OP is addressed only to those that know what "evil" means.

2. Who are these choice of characters?
They are who they are. Call them Happy & Grumpy if it helps.

3. Where did you get this information about them?
Its made up - as are the characters.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_experiment

Apologies to Agerg if I am off the mark.l

You're assuming too much.

I think the OP is addressed only to those that know what "evil" means.
That assumes their exists a uniform and universal understanding of the term, without any variation in perspective on the topic.
Not just unlikely in concept, it is impossible in practice.

They are who they are. Call them Happy & Grumpy if it helps.
Their names aren't as important as the 'what' of their 'who' so to speak.
What positions do either of them hold?
To quote the old Steve Martin movie:
Just because my grandfather didn't rape the environment and exploit the workers doesn't make me a peasant. And it's not that he didn't want to rape the environment and exploit the workers, I'm sure he did. It's just that as a barber, he didn't have that much opportunity.

Its made up - as are the characters.
So, irrelevant in essence.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Why do you object? The entities Agerg suggests are not real, they are imaginary (despite his obvious message that A is "the God of the Bible" and that B is Satan).

MC is saying "your examples don't exist but God does".

He's turning around the original question into "which is real, your fake examples, or God? Who should we actually listen to then?" A far more important question than Agerg's attempt at blasphemy.

That's the whole point. You clearly see A and B as unreal but cannot see your god or your devil in the same light.

You see this gracious god of yours, even though it let 100 million people get killed in the pogroms of the 20th century without a peep from this alleged god, but that doesn't matter, your god can do no wrong.

Like you supporting your country, right or wrong.

There is something DEEPLY wrong with your idea of this loving god who lets literally a hundred million die at the hands of despots, regardless of the religious leanings of said despots, any god worth its salt and professing a love of humanity would never have allowed that level of atrocity to happen.

The is NO argument that can get around that.

Well there is the 'you can't know the mind of god' card.

Are you going to play that?

Originally posted by sonhouse
That's the whole point. You clearly see A and B as unreal but cannot see your god or your devil in the same light.

You see this gracious god of yours, even though it let 100 million people get killed in the pogroms of the 20th century without a peep from this alleged god, but that doesn't matter, your god can do no wrong.

Like you supporting your co ...[text shortened]... hat.

Well there is the 'you can't know the mind of god' card.

Are you going to play that?

He is the image of the invisible God - Colossians 1:15

YouTube

Originally posted by FreakyKBH

1. That assumes their exists a uniform and universal understanding
of the term, without any variation in perspective on the topic.
Not just unlikely in concept, it is impossible in practice.

2. Their names aren't as important as the 'what' of their 'who' so to speak.
What positions do either of them hold?

3. Its made up - as are the characters
So, irrelevant in essence.

1. No it doesn't. Any argument is bounded by the understanding of those
taking part. I may as well ask you what you mean by "uniform", "universal"
and "topic". Its a pointless and puerile point to bring to the discussion.

2. Their names are not important. Agreed. Why did you ask who they were?
As for their positions; seated and unemployed.

3. Thought experiments are made up. (Like deities) But can still
yield interesting discussion. If you think it irrelevant don't
contribute. Presumably you and I will both be happier.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
You're going to have to answer a few questions, before I answer yours.

1. What is evil?
2. Who are these choice of characters?
3. Where did you get this information about them?

As a lawyer, you wouldn't make it far, sorry to tell you.

1) No need to delve into the murky depths of sophistry just yet. Let's just agree to use the colloquial, what the average bloke down the pub means by "evil", definition of the word.
2) Why does it matter who they are? I tell you what, they are better known as Alice and Bob ... does that help!?
3) My hands were guided, as if by an invisible force, to type this information ... hope this helps 🙂


You really don't think I'll make it as a lawyer? 🙁

Originally posted by Agerg
1) No need to delve into the murky depths of sophistry just yet. Let's just agree to use the colloquial, what the average bloke down the pub means by "evil", definition of the word.
2) Why does it matter who they are? I tell you what, they are better known as Alice and Bob ... does that help!?
3) My hands were guided, as if by an invisible force, to type this information ... hope this helps 🙂


You really don't think I'll make it as a lawyer? 🙁

You can't refer to the colloquial use of the word 'evil' in this world, since there is clearly and demonstrably huge chasms between large groups of people on the use and application thereof.

According to militant Muslims, the US is evil while beheading civilians is permissible.
According to some factions of Christianity, abortion is evil.
According to some liberally-minded people, non-toleration for alternative lifestyles is evil.
According to some within the political realm, their counterparts are evil.

Without an agreed-upon scale, a mother forcing her child to eat vegetables could be considered evil, so I'm afraid you'll just have to do better than what you've put forth so far.

Alice and Bob don't have much bearing on anyone, now do they?
About as much bearing as your force-guided writings, and just as relevant.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
According to militant Muslims, the US is evil while beheading civilians is permissible.
According to some factions of Christianity, abortion is evil.
According to some liberally-minded people, non-toleration for alternative lifestyles is evil.
According to some within the political realm, their counterparts are evil.

But they all know what evil is!

It's what they define as evil (not how they define evil).

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder ... but we all know what the
word beauty means. Not agreeing on what is beautiful does
not mean that we cannot agree on a definition of beauty.