1. Joined
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    27 Jan '08 23:491 edit
    when a creationist claims god made everything, the first reply of an atheist is "who made god?" how does this disprove god? when an atheist says "the big bang made everything", a creationist could just as easily say "who created the big bang?" my point is not that god is real, my point is that the who-created-god-paradox is not a valid one because it could also be used to disprove the big bang theory also. you may say "the big bang came from matter smaller than an atom that is ever expanding." "who made that small piece of matter?" somewhere along the line, something that normally is considered "impossible" happened; something created itself.
    EDIT: or that something has always existed and created everything or caused everything (big bang, or god).
  2. Joined
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    27 Jan '08 23:55
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    when a creationist claims god made everything, the first reply of an atheist is "who made god?" how does this disprove god? when an atheist says "the big bang made everything", a creationist could just as easily say "who created the big bang?" my point is not that god is real, my point is that the who-created-god-paradox is not a valid one because it c ...[text shortened]... g has always existed and created everything or caused everything (big bang, or god).
    The "who created god" question is usually mentioned after creationists use the argument that god must exist because everything must have a creator. If everything must have a creator, then god must too.

    The difference is that the big bang theory doesn't claim that everything needs to have a creator, nor does it claim that someone created that piece of matter.
  3. Joined
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    27 Jan '08 23:56
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    when a creationist claims god made everything, the first reply of an atheist is "who made god?" how does this disprove god? when an atheist says "the big bang made everything", a creationist could just as easily say "who created the big bang?" my point is not that god is real, my point is that the who-created-god-paradox is not a valid one because it c ...[text shortened]... g has always existed and created everything or caused everything (big bang, or god).
    What if the only fundamental constant is that of energy? Prehaps energy 'always' existed. I use inverted commas because there was no pre-big bang from a human perspective as time did not exist. Anyway, not understanding something with our current scientific knowleage is no reason to give up and say 'God did it.'
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    28 Jan '08 00:001 edit
    I don't understand why anyone has to prove anything. God is supernatural, and therefore does not follow natural 'laws'. So it doesn't matter. Why this urge to 'prove' that god exists?

    The FSM people simply accept that the FSM alters any test any way (s)he sees fit anyway.
  5. Standard memberHand of Hecate
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    28 Jan '08 00:09
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    when a creationist claims god made everything, the first reply of an atheist is "who made god?" how does this disprove god? when an atheist says "the big bang made everything", a creationist could just as easily say "who created the big bang?" my point is not that god is real, my point is that the who-created-god-paradox is not a valid one because it c ...[text shortened]... g has always existed and created everything or caused everything (big bang, or god).
    Creationists have a theory, similar to the Big Bang, commonly refered to as the Chicken Brickin'. Now, there are differences, God, for instance, always existed. However, when He was much younger and playing around in his bedroom, He made himself a pet much like a chicken. The chicken, affectionately known as Ed, was a much beloved pet. One day, God got a little, shall we say, vigorous when playing around with Ed. One thing led to another and Chicken Brickin was initiated, wherupon, Ed's head was smashed between a couple of bricks. The resulting thrashing and climax created the Universe.
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    28 Jan '08 00:09
    Originally posted by Jake Ellison
    What if the only fundamental constant is that of energy? Prehaps energy 'always' existed. I use inverted commas because there was no pre-big bang from a human perspective as time did not exist. Anyway, not understanding something with our current scientific knowleage is no reason to give up and say 'God did it.'
    i never said god did it, i am pretty neutral in the sense that idk what happened at the "beginning". i just put that out there for people to discuss.
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    28 Jan '08 00:10
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    The "who created god" question is usually mentioned after creationists use the argument that god must exist because everything must have a creator. If everything must have a creator, then god must too.

    The difference is that the big bang theory doesn't claim that everything needs to have a creator, nor does it claim that someone created that piece of matter.
    a creationist would reply, "god is infinite and has always existed."
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    28 Jan '08 00:231 edit
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    i never said god did it, i am pretty neutral in the sense that idk what happened at the "beginning". i just put that out there for people to discuss.
    No I understand that. Some people do say 'God did it' though. I wasn't spesifically directing that comment.
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    28 Jan '08 00:24
    Originally posted by Hand of Hecate
    Creationists have a theory, similar to the Big Bang, commonly refered to as the Chicken Brickin'. Now, there are differences, God, for instance, always existed. However, when He was much younger and playing around in his bedroom, He made himself a pet much like a chicken. The chicken, affectionately known as Ed, was a much beloved pet. One day, Go ...[text shortened]... smashed between a couple of bricks. The resulting thrashing and climax created the Universe.
    This is a theory I could accept.
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    28 Jan '08 00:27
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    a creationist would reply, "god is infinite and has always existed."
    I know, and they have. Of course that would violate their rule that everything has a creator. Also, the creationist view needs not be consistent.
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    28 Jan '08 00:33
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    somewhere along the line, something that normally is considered "impossible" happened; something created itself.
    That is what most monotheists believe. God is his own creator.
  12. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    28 Jan '08 00:46
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    That is what most monotheists believe. God is his own creator.
    No it isn't. Most monotheists say that god was not created. They claim that he is eternal and has always been there.
  13. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    28 Jan '08 00:53
    Originally posted by EcstremeVenom
    when a creationist claims god made everything, the first reply of an atheist is "who made god?" how does this disprove god? when an atheist says "the big bang made everything", a creationist could just as easily say "who created the big bang?" my point is not that god is real, my point is that the who-created-god-paradox is not a valid one because it c ...[text shortened]... g has always existed and created everything or caused everything (big bang, or god).
    Your argument is ridiculous. Theists claim that god is eternal and that he was not 'caused.' To escape from the eternal causal regression they plug him in as the first cause, or the 'uncaused cause.' The atheists rightfully question what basis they have for making that claim. Since Big Bang theorists do not necessarily make any claims for what preceded the Big Bang, I fail to see what one position has to do with the other. It's an open question as to what (or if anything) preceded the Big Bang.
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    28 Jan '08 00:58
    Originally posted by rwingett
    No it isn't. Most monotheists say that god was not created. They claim that he is eternal and has always been there.
    Can something not be eternal while at once its own creator?
  15. Donationrwingett
    Ming the Merciless
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    28 Jan '08 00:59
    Originally posted by Conrau K
    Can something not be eternal while at once its own creator?
    Uh...No?
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