14 Jan 14
Originally posted by houdini3000He probably did exist
He was probably a charismatic religious leader and he appears to have had a fairly advanced moral code.
Many of the events depicted in the Bible about him are likely to have been exaggerated to a greater or lesser extent.
It is extremely unlikely that he had any kind of supernatural powers.
Penguin.
Originally posted by Penguinpathetic, there is more historical evidence for the existence of Christ than for Alexander the Great, we never hear you piping up about whether Alexander existed! shameful historical bias, conjecture and speculation masquerading as fact. Through him to the lions!
He probably did exist
He was probably a charismatic religious leader and he appears to have had a fairly advanced moral code.
Many of the events depicted in the Bible about him are likely to have been exaggerated to a greater or lesser extent.
It is extremely [b]unlikely that he had any kind of supernatural powers.
Penguin.[/b]
14 Jan 14
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut the question was about Jesus, not Alexander.
pathetic, there is more historical evidence for the existence of Christ than for Alexander the Great, we never hear you piping up about whether Alexander existed! shameful historical bias, conjecture and speculation masquerading as fact. Through him to the lions!
There is no religion founded on Alexander the Great. His philosophy does not inform any kind of 'spirituality', this forum does not constantly discuss him so I don't see why it would be expected that I would bring him up.
If you like, I will voice my opinion on Alexander but it has no relevance to the question in the OP.
He probably did exist.
He was probably a charismatic military leader
Many of his exploits were probably exaggerated
He is very unlikely to have had any supernatural powers.
How about Robin Hood?
He probably did not exist as a single person
The story of Robin Hood is probably based on one or two exploits of the time by different people, highly embellished and bought together into a single tale.
But neither Alexander the Great, nor Robin Hood were mentioned in the question. The question was entirely about the nature of Jesus and that is what I responded to.
--- Penguin.
Originally posted by PenguinI introduced Alexander as a litmus test to your assertion and it is therefore absolutely relevant, you state that Christ probably never existed when in fact there is more evidence for Christ both contemporary and by secular historians than for Alexander, let us then here you state the same thing, Alexander probably never existed, come on Penguin, lets here you say it.
But the question was about Jesus, not Alexander.
There is no religion founded on Alexander the Great. His philosophy does not inform any kind of 'spirituality', this forum does not constantly discuss him so I don't see why it would be expected that I would bring him up.
If you like, I will voice my opinion on Alexander but it has no relevance to the q ...[text shortened]... question was entirely about the nature of Jesus and that is what I responded to.
--- Penguin.
OOps i see that you stated that he probably did exist, why i read it wrongly i cannot say, i apologize profusely, my eyes don't seem to be what they used to be, either that or i am losing it.
14 Jan 14
Originally posted by robbie carrobieFair enough, apology accepted, no harm done.
I introduced Alexander as a litmus test to your assertion and it is therefore absolutely relevant, you state that Christ probably never existed when in fact there is more evidence for Christ both contemporary and by secular historians than for Alexander, let us then here you state the same thing, Alexander probably never existed, come on Penguin, let ...[text shortened]... ologize profusely, my eyes don't seem to be what they used to be, either that or i am losing it.
Penguin.
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Jesus Christ is what God meant by the human race.
Jesus Christ is the standard of the Normal of what man should be.
The teaching of Jesus Christ is simply what He Himself lived.
No man on the face of the earth ever preached what he practiced and practiced what he preached to the same level as Jesus Christ.
He lived for 29 years creating no particular stir. Then at 30 years of age He began to teach exactly what He had been living for 29 years.
Jesus Christ not only testified that He as the normal human being.
He also taught that He was alone the way to achieve that life.
"I am the way and the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me." (John 14:6)
Jesus therefore did not come with A way. He taught that He came as THE Way.
The world considers Jesus Christ as a great enigma. That He is. But actually it would be more accurate to realize that Jesus Christ proves how far man has deviated and fallen short of the meaning of his creation and existence.
The testimony of Jesus demonstrates how low below normality mankind has become.
Jesus Christ is God mingled with man in an intertwining union of the uncreated with the created, the infinite with the finite, the incorporation of the Eternal Life with the created life - Godman.
Originally posted by sonshipI would imagine this is also how David Koresh thought of himself and how his followers viewed Koresh.
Jesus Christ is what God meant by the human race.
Jesus Christ is the standard of the Normal of what man should be.
The teaching of Jesus Christ is simply what He Himself lived.
No man on the face of the earth ever preached what he practiced and practiced what he preached to the same level as Jesus Christ.
He lived for 29 years creating no pa ...[text shortened]... infinite with the finite, the incorporation of the Eternal Life with the created life - Godman.
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14 Jan 14
3 edits
I would imagine this is also how David Koresh thought of himself and how his followers viewed Koresh.
Alright, let's take this little bit of skepticism.
How about, KingRat, we actually compare David Koresh to Jesus?
How about we examine the two lives for a comparison?
A few facts of David Koresh:
1.) David Koresh stole the wives of members of his group to their resentment.
2.) David Koresh sexually exploited young girls and then rewarded them with colorful clothing to distinquish them from the other girls.
3.) David Koresh's compound was armed to the hilt with guns, bombs, explosives and weapons. His war seemed much less moral and spiritual than military.
Now don't come back and tell me about the Crusades or the Spanish Inquisition. We are comparing David Koresh with Jesus Christ. Okay ?
So don't come back with "The Salem Witch Trials !!" "Child Molesting Priests!"
We are comparing the behavior of David Koresh specifically with that of Jesus of Nazareth specifically.
Now Jesus. I would not hesitate to submit that Jesus of Nazareth exemplified both in teaching and in behavior the highest level of morality that the earth has ever seen in any age.
I would submit that Jesus of Nazareth demonstrated a life which cared less for Himself and more for the will of God (whom He called His Father) than any spiritual leader that ever lived.
It is apparent to me the Jesus wanted nothing for Himself and wanted everything for His Father.
So we cannot say that just because both men stood up in front of a crowd and talked about spiritual things, that they are equal. That is not sober minded consideration.
Now how are the two men similar ? well both David Koresh and Jesus Christ based who and what they were on what was written in the Bible.
The difference to me is that David Koresh used the Bible's King David to dignify his lust for multiple sex partners. And Jesus was born and acted like the Davidic Messiah prophesied to come throughout the Old Testament in terms of righteousness, holiness, and divine glory.
Koresh may have started out a very eloquent Bible teacher. But he was duped by evil spirits to utilize the Bible to make sacred his sexual appetite for multiple sex partners.
Jesus was not able to be corrupted through and through.
14 Jan 14
I'm not saying they're identical. Merely that they shared a similar mental illness that made them think they were sent by God or were the son of God or whatever.
They both had a God complex of sorts.
But I understand why you would defend Jebus so vehemently. The followers of Koresh would've done the same, even though it's obvious to an outsider just how insane Koresh was.
It's difficult if not impossible for a brainwashed person to objectively look at himself while he's still in that state of "brainwashness".
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I'm not saying they're identical. Merely that they shared a similar mental illness that made them think they were sent by God or were the son of God or whatever.
Jesus was opposed by the religious power structures because He did things which undeniably proved He was sent from God. Explosive jealousy on the part of those who were suppose to be the spiritual leaders of the nation, was the cause of the persecution of Jesus.
David Koresh may have thought he was sent by God. But just in case he had enough weapons to kill off thousands of opponents.
Jesus stepped foward and voluntarily turned Himself over to enemies. When his leading disciples drew a sword and cut off a guards ear (he was probably aiming for the man's HEAD), Jesus scolded Peter and healed the man's severed ear.
Jesus told His opposers that if they sought HIM they should let His disciples go free.
Have you done any actual reading of the New Testament ?
They both had a God complex of sorts.
They came to make Jesus a king by force. He hid Himself.
How come ?
"The people therefore, seeing the sign which He did, said, This is truly the Prophet who is to come into the world.
Then Jesus, knowing that they were about to come and take Him by force to make Him King, withdrew again to the mountain, Himself alone." (John 6:14,15)
Strange act for a man crazy with an unhealthy obsession of self importance.
But I understand why you would defend Jebus so vehemently. The followers of Koresh would've done the same, even though it's obvious to an outsider just how insane Koresh was.
Is it obvious to you that Jesus was insane ?
Please start, say, with the fifth chapter of Matthew's Gospel. Keep reading until you come to a verse which exemplifies to you the insanity of Jesus. Point it out to me by number please. There are 48 verses in Matthew chapter 5.
Which is the first verse which unquestionably demonstrates the mental insanity of Jesus ? And most importantly - Why do you think so ?
It's difficult if not impossible for a brainwashed person to objectively look at himself while he's still in that state of "brainwashness".
I am expecting you to take a reasonably manageable portion of the New Testament, the famous "Sermon on the Mount" - just 48 verses. You're going to show me exactly where the mental imbalance of Jesus Christ is located in His sayings there.
I am out here on a limb now, so be bold.