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09 Dec 15
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Originally posted by whodeyMost of the answers I see are reasonable.
From a Biblical point of view, who was the first Christian?
I might point out that the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch in Acts 11:19.
" And when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. And it happened with them that for a whole year they were gathered in the church and taught a considerable number and that the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch."
But I would also point to this passage before they were called Christians, when the resurrected Jesus caused disciples to be born again by breathing into them the Holy Spirit.
"And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced at seeing the Lord.
Then Jesus said to them again, Peace be with you; as the Father sent Me, I also send you. And when He had said this, He breathed into them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit." (John 20:20-22)
They became born again Christians at that moment. The demonstration signaled that He was coming to indwell them in His form as the Holy Spirit. Other disciples whose moment of regeneration is not recorded, essentially received the Holy Spirit as well and became Christians.
I suppose twhitehead's point of Simon and Andrew being the first Christians is valid as well.
But it could be pushed back even further to Anna, Elizabeth, and Mary and Joseph even John the Baptist, who believed that He was the Christ in the early chapters of the Gospel of Luke.
Maybe it is dependent on the definition.
10 Dec 15
Originally posted by whodeyIf you broaden the definition enough it would be Adam. The coming of Christ to save the world was preached to all of the patriarchs of old. They believed in the arrival of Christ although they did not live to see it.
Let me rephrase, I'm talking about the first person to believe that Jesus had come into the world to save the world.
Don't get hung up on when the term "Christian" came about.
If you are referring to after Jesus was born then it would be Mary and Joseph, the wise men, the shepherds in the field etc. These were all believers.
10 Dec 15
Originally posted by checkbaiterIm pretty sure that there is no such thing in the Bible as "permanently filled with holy spirit". If there is please provide a reference.
You would have to define "Christian" ... a follower of Jesus with holy spirit upon them or a "born again" Christian permanently filled with holy spirit in them.
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Originally posted by Rajk999How long did Jesus say the Spirit of truth, "the another Comforter" would be with the disciples ?
Im pretty sure that there is no such thing in the Bible as "permanently filled with holy spirit". If there is please provide a reference.
" And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Comforter, that He may be with you forever." (John 14:15)
How long will the Holy Spirit be with those to whom the Father gives the Spirit ?
Does your New Testament also say forever ?
" ... that He may be with you FOREVER."
Originally posted by sonshipThe Comforter being with the disciples or the church as a whole and forever, is a completely different matter to an individual disciple being filled with the holy spirit permanently.
How long did Jesus say the Spirit of truth, [b]"the another Comforter" would be with the disciples ?[/b]
Many professed followers and partakers of the Holy Spirit can and do/did fall away. Thereafter they are not partakers of the Holy Spirit.
No passage in the Bible speaks of anyone being permanently filled with the Holy Spirit. God gives and withdraws as he pleases.
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Originally posted by Rajk999
The Comforter being with the disciples or the church as a whole and forever, is a completely different matter to an individual disciple being filled with the holy spirit permanently.
You make Jesus a liar then. He tells the twelve that the Comforter will be with them forever. But what you say He really meant was that with each of them individually He only promises the Comforter will be with them temporarily and conditionally.
If you say that the "you" is only the universal church then it makes verse 17 senseless.
"Even the Spirit of reality whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him.;
But you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you." (John 14:17)
Jesus was physically with the twelve disciples.
After His resurrection He who had been abiding with them physically would be IN them.
Jesus is IN all the constituents of the universal church. But not all of the universal church was privy to Jesus being physically abiding with them for three and one half years.
So the promise of verse 16 is to the disciples. You cannot say He is forever with the universal church only but not necessarily with the individual disciples.
Many professed followers and partakers of the Holy Spirit can and do/did fall away.
That speaks of their unfaithfulness to the Spirit. It does not mean the Holy Spirit's unfaithfulness to THEM.
Thereafter they are not partakers of the Holy Spirit.
One not partaking of the benefit and riches of the Holy Spirit is not one whom the Holy Spirit has left. You are speaking of a believer's leaving the blessed influence of the Holy Spirit living in them. This does not mean the Holy Spirit is unfaithful to THEM and leaves them.
No passage in the Bible speaks of anyone being permanently filled with the Holy Spirit. God gives and withdraws as he pleases.
I didn't provide you a passage about being filled. I provided you with a passage about the Holy Spirit being WITH the disciples forever. And if you don't believe it, I choose to believe it.
Now in your next post specify the New Testament passage saying that God will or did cause a withdrawing of the Holy Spirit from a Christian.
Originally posted by sonshipDo you believe that the murderer Robert Louis Dear who is a born again Christian and who is saved eternally [according to you and him] has the Holy Spirit?The Comforter being with the disciples or the church as a whole and forever, is a completely different matter to an individual disciple being filled with the holy spirit permanently.
You make Jesus a liar then. He tells the twelve that the Comforter will be with them forever. But what you say He really meant was that with each of them in ...[text shortened]... /b] passage saying that God will or did cause a withdrawing of the Holy Spirit from a Christian.
If you are not familiar with this story here is the link
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/revealed-planned-parenthood-killer-believed-christs-forgiveness-meant-he-could-get-away-with-anything/
Do you think that Gods spirit works in Christians who commit such grievous sins?
12 Dec 15
Originally posted by whodeyI'm not sure how you are defining Christian, but I'll say the first was the thief on the cross
From a Biblical point of view, who was the first Christian?
next to Jesus when Jesus said this to him.
Luke 23:
40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, Dost thou not even fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss. 42 And he said, Jesus, remember me when thou comest in thy kingdom. 43 And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in Paradise.