19 Apr 07
Originally posted by sonhousenow my wife is stepping in with her two cents...
So A&E never made it? So they went to hell?
Ah, my wife says Abel because he was the first to die.
heaven was not available until jesus died. therefore, all the believers before jesus went at the same time from abraham's bosom or sheol or wherever to heaven.
per my wife. smartest lady i know. 😉
19 Apr 07
Originally posted by Big MacBut I thought various characters flew up into heaven in the old testament.
now my wife is stepping in with her two cents...
heaven was not available until jesus died. therefore, all the believers before jesus went at the same time from abraham's bosom or sheol or wherever to heaven.
per my wife. smartest lady i know. 😉
19 Apr 07
Originally posted by twhiteheaddoes it mention them specifically going to heaven?
But I thought various characters flew up into heaven in the old testament.
if it does, the hebrew word is usually plural, e.g. heavens, which does refer to the sky. their ultimate destination is not mentioned, if i recall. i can't look it up right now, but i will.
19 Apr 07
Originally posted by Big MacSo why would God reward a famous character by sending him to the sky?
does it mention them specifically going to heaven?
if it does, the hebrew word is usually plural, e.g. heavens, which does refer to the sky. their ultimate destination is not mentioned, if i recall. i can't look it up right now, but i will.
19 Apr 07
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadi'm just saying that it doesn't list his "final destination."
So why would God reward a famous character by sending him to the sky?
the afterlife is very murky in the ot.
there are places such as abraham's bosom, sheol, the pit, etc. it would take some study and research to figure out the language and implications.
19 Apr 07
Originally posted by Big MacAnd what's happened to that first person who went to heaven. Has he aged? Or has he remained the same as at the time of his death? If that guy decided to donate his heart before he died, and then his heart really got harvested when he died, will he arrive in heaven without a heart?
i'm just saying that it doesn't list his "final destination."
the afterlife is very murky in the ot.
there are places such as abraham's bosom, sheol, the pit, etc. it would take some study and research to figure out the language and implications.
But how many people have gone to heaven after that? Between heaven and hell, which one is more populated now? Probably hell.
Perhaps God needs to think about expanding the size of both heaven and hell soon because a total of 6.5 billion people are on the way there. Not to mention that the number is increasing exponentially.
19 Apr 07
Originally posted by ckoh1965good questions. i don't know all the answers.
And what's happened to that first person who went to heaven. Has he aged? Or has he remained the same as at the time of his death? If that guy decided to donate his heart before he died, and then his heart really got harvested when he died, will he arrive in heaven without a heart?
But how many people have gone to heaven after that? Between heaven and he ...[text shortened]... illion people are on the way there. Not to mention that the number is increasing exponentially.
i don't think people in heaven have physical bodies yet. bible talks about a future resurrection when those who have been dead, their bodies will "rise" first. since it is a new body (only like the old one) there won't be any amputated limbs, or ashes to ashes stuff, or absense of organs thanks to donations, etc.
btw: organ donation is an important thing for everybody to sign up for.
i agree that there are probably more people in hell.
i don't know the size of the domains now, so i couldn't offer an guess on whether god needs to alter the size in the future. maybe it'll just grow tall like New York.
19 Apr 07
Originally posted by ckoh19656 billion? Out of all the humans who have lived, try more like a TRILLION. You thought heaven was overcrowded? Try living with a trillion self righteous asssholes.
And what's happened to that first person who went to heaven. Has he aged? Or has he remained the same as at the time of his death? If that guy decided to donate his heart before he died, and then his heart really got harvested when he died, will he arrive in heaven without a heart?
But how many people have gone to heaven after that? Between heaven and he ...[text shortened]... illion people are on the way there. Not to mention that the number is increasing exponentially.
19 Apr 07
Originally posted by sonhousei try not to be too self-righteous. as for the other charge, perhaps you could bring specific charges to me that could help me deal with my "assholiness?"
6 billion? Out of all the humans who have lived, try more like a TRILLION. You thought heaven was overcrowded? Try living with a trillion self righteous asssholes.
side note: could not arrogance in one's own knowledge (be it religious or scientific) not easly lead to self-righteousness?
19 Apr 07
Originally posted by Big MacGot egg on your face? That was a Yolk son, Get it, yolk......
i try not to be too self-righteous. as for the other charge, perhaps you could bring specific charges to me that could help me deal with my "assholiness?"
side note: could not arrogance in one's own knowledge (be it religious or scientific) not easly lead to self-righteousness?
19 Apr 07
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadPretending to admit of a literal interpretation of events listed in the
But I thought various characters flew up into heaven in the old testament.
Christian canon for just a moment...
Well, if you consider that Abel went to the 'waiting room' before
salvation was granted by Jesus, then Enoch would have been the first
person in heaven, for it reads in Genesis 5:22-24.
Enoch lived three hundred years after the birth of Methuselah, and he
had other sons and daughters. The whole lifetime of Enoch was three
hundred and sixty-five years. Then Enoch walked with God, and he
was no longer here, for God took him.
Elijah must have been there before Jesus, too, for it reads in II Kings
2:11 -- As [Elisha and Elijah] walked on conversing, a flaming chariot and
flaming horses came between them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a
whirlwind.
We can also interpret the parable of the rich man and Lazarus from the
Gospel of St Luke (16:19-31) as indicating that Abraham was also in
heaven, given that angels were present.
Nemesio