1. Joined
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    29 May '13 10:03
    In the wake of the recent "Abolish Islam" debacle, I made a comment in another thread that posters in this forum had a one time or another either called for or approved of the removal of Christianity from the world. Proper Knob has challenged me on it and to be fair I could be mistaken, so I'm inviting those of an opinion to comment:

    In a situation where you could abolish Christianity from the world would you do so?

    There is only one clause I'm keeping in this, and that is that you cannot abolish all religion. Christianity either stays or it goes on it's own merits and this is a one time offer. Your call...
  2. Dublin Ireland
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    29 May '13 10:17
    Originally posted by divegeester
    In the wake of the recent "Abolish Islam" debacle, I made a comment in another thread that posters in this forum had a one time or another either called for or approved of the removal of Christianity from the world. Proper Knob has challenged me on it and to be fair I could be mistaken, so I'm inviting those of an opinion to comment:

    [b]In a situation ...[text shortened]... nity either stays or it goes on it's own merits and this is a one time offer. Your call...
    It is my considered opinion that you can have a proper orderly society
    without any religion. All that is needed is a sensible and moral code of
    conduct which follows the rules of common sense.

    Everyone knows that you should not cheat or steal or murder.
    All that is required is a judicial system which takes those offenses
    into account and hands out the appropriate penalty for transgressions.

    There is no proof, I have said this again and again, there is no proof
    for any God or any religion. No one in this world can prove without
    any reasonable doubt that there is a God whether his name is Yahweh
    or Allah or Ronald McDonald.

    Celebrate the human family no matter where you are or what colour
    you are. It doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman. All shall be equal
    under the moral code and everyone has skills and talents that can make
    this place a better world to live in without the horror of any religion.
  3. Joined
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    29 May '13 10:39
    What is meant by "abolish"?
  4. Dublin Ireland
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    29 May '13 10:47
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    What is meant by "abolish"?
    Dictionary defines the word abolish as a verb,

    to do away with, annul, repeal, to put an end to or destroy completely.
  5. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    slatington, pa, usa
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    29 May '13 11:37
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    Dictionary defines the word abolish as a verb,

    to do away with, annul, repeal, to put an end to or destroy completely.
    I like my anti-religion virus, killing all faith in all religions but leaving nobody dead, they all live and then after saying 'we used to believe in THAT crap?" and finding out all those former enemies can now be fast friends, religious wars forgotten and forgiven on all sides and a new civilization comes out of the wreckage of the former religious warfare and strife.
  6. Joined
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    29 May '13 11:411 edit
    Dictionary definitions are interesting but often aren't nearly enough when words are being used in conversations. Context is important.

    In the question "In a situation where you could abolish Christianity from the world would you do so?" more than just a dictionary definition is needed.

    If I could simply "wish" it away, then yes, in a heartbeat.
    If it could only be removed by forbidding it, or by taunting and ridiculing those who believe in it until they kill themselves out of sheer misery, then no.

    Since the first option does not exist, except for in once fantasy - much like God - the answer would be no.
  7. Joined
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    29 May '13 12:00
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I like my anti-religion virus, killing all faith in all religions but leaving nobody dead, they all live and then after saying 'we used to believe in THAT crap?" and finding out all those former enemies can now be fast friends, religious wars forgotten and forgiven on all sides and a new civilization comes out of the wreckage of the former religious warfare and strife.
    so basically mind control. only you see nothing wrong with it because it is mind control towards your point of view. i bet you would see things differently if the scenario was reversed
  8. Joined
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    29 May '13 14:52
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    I like my anti-religion virus, killing all faith in all religions but leaving nobody dead, they all live and then after saying 'we used to believe in THAT crap?" and finding out all those former enemies can now be fast friends, religious wars forgotten and forgiven on all sides and a new civilization comes out of the wreckage of the former religious warfare and strife.
    Is that no, you would keep Christianity?
  9. Joined
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    29 May '13 14:54
    Originally posted by Great King Rat
    Dictionary definitions are interesting but often aren't nearly enough when words are being used in conversations. Context is important.

    In the question "In a situation where you could abolish Christianity from the world would you do so?" more than just a dictionary definition is needed.

    If I could simply "wish" it away, then yes, in a heartbeat. ...[text shortened]... option does not exist, except for in once fantasy - much like God - the answer would be no.
    Consider abolish in exactly the same context that "Islam should be abolished" was presented. No one seemed to need clarification on the meaning of abolish then so I don't see why it would be needed here.
  10. Joined
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    29 May '13 15:16
    Originally posted by divegeester
    In the wake of the recent "Abolish Islam" debacle, I made a comment in another thread that posters in this forum had a one time or another either called for or approved of the removal of Christianity from the world. Proper Knob has challenged me on it and to be fair I could be mistaken, so I'm inviting those of an opinion to comment:

    [b]In a situation ...[text shortened]... nity either stays or it goes on it's own merits and this is a one time offer. Your call...
    "In a situation where you could abolish Christianity from the world would you do so? "

    No. Even if the intentions were good, which is doubtful, there is the law of unintended consequences. None of us is smart enough to predict and control the effects of such an act. Better to let cultural evolution plod along, while seeking to improve the standard of living and freedom of those most oppressed by whatever institutions oppress them, without respect to religion.
  11. Joined
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    29 May '13 16:08
    Originally posted by JS357
    "In a situation where you could abolish Christianity from the world would you do so? "

    No. Even if the intentions were good, which is doubtful, there is the law of unintended consequences. None of us is smart enough to predict and control the effects of such an act. Better to let cultural evolution plod along, while seeking to improve the standard of livin ...[text shortened]... om of those most oppressed by whatever institutions oppress them, without respect to religion.
    Thanks!

    Be good to get a direct response from sonhouse and joe
  12. Joined
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    29 May '13 16:53
    Originally posted by divegeester
    In the wake of the recent "Abolish Islam" debacle, I made a comment in another thread that posters in this forum had a one time or another either called for or approved of the removal of Christianity from the world. Proper Knob has challenged me on it and to be fair I could be mistaken, so I'm inviting those of an opinion to comment:

    [b]In a situation ...[text shortened]... nity either stays or it goes on it's own merits and this is a one time offer. Your call...
    Abolish implies to me taking steps that would ensure that even those that wished to continue to practise Christianity would be actively prevented from doing so.

    This must entail, for me, making Christianity illegal, punishing those that continue to practise it, closing down all Christian churches by force etc etc.

    That is why I, like Proper Knob, can't recall anyone suggesting it for Christianity. I have, however, seen it suggested for Islam.

    Of course, the idea of doing it for any religion is abhorrent and anyone supporting for any religion should be ashamed of themselves for suggesting it.

    If, by abolish, you just mean making the case for atheism so strongly that Christians give up their religion of their own free will, and the religion eventually ceases to be practised by anyone, then that is different. But that is not what I take to mean by abolishing a religion.
  13. Joined
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    29 May '13 17:181 edit
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    Abolish implies to me taking steps that would ensure that even those that wished to continue to practise Christianity would be actively prevented from doing so.

    This must entail, for me, making Christianity illegal, punishing those that continue to practise it, closing down all Christian churches by force etc etc.

    That is why I, like Proper Knob, anyone, then that is different. But that is not what I take to mean by abolishing a religion.
    "Abolish implies to me taking steps that would ensure that even those that wished to continue to practise Christianity would be actively prevented from doing so. "

    That's how I take the meaning in this context. I take it to be like the abolitionist's aims regarding slavery. Make it illegal. However, slavery was not espoused by the slaves. Perhaps if the slaves believed that being a good slave was essential to their salvation, things would have been different.

    Some Christians seem to regard efforts to maintain separation of church and state, as efforts to abolish Christianity, so the words are important. The side whose definitions prevail will be the side that prevails.
  14. Joined
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    29 May '13 17:30
    Originally posted by divegeester
    Consider abolish in exactly the same context that "Islam should be abolished" was presented. No one seemed to need clarification on the meaning of abolish then so I don't see why it would be needed here.
    Just because "no one seemed to need it" doesn't mean you should be the same. You're allowed to be better than that.

    Let me rephrase:

    How did you think the people who called for the abolishment of Christianity meant it (assuming for a moment you remembered it correctly)? Did they imply forbidding it or was it something else like "ooh, I hope Christianity disappears one day"?
  15. Joined
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    29 May '13 18:06
    Originally posted by Rank outsider
    Abolish implies to me taking steps that would ensure that even those that wished to continue to practise Christianity would be actively prevented from doing so.

    This must entail, for me, making Christianity illegal, punishing those that continue to practise it, closing down all Christian churches by force etc etc.

    That is why I, like Proper Knob, ...[text shortened]... anyone, then that is different. But that is not what I take to mean by abolishing a religion.
    It will be very pleasing to hear that none of the atheists or other Christian detractors would want it abolished. Especially sonhouse and joe who are the 2 posters I particularly think I remember saying they would be happy if Christianity didn't exist anymore.
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