Originally posted by ahosyneyFrom Quartz Hill School of Theology....
2 Tim is written before the four gospels (or at least two of them). So it is sure not talking about the NT.
"This second letter to Timothy was apparently written while he was imprisoned in Rome, awaiting execution. Timothy, based on the information in 1 Timothy 1:3, was still in Ephesus. The letter was written sometime between AD 62 and 67. If the tradition is accurate regarding Paul's martyrdom during the reign of Nero, then the letter was certainly written before June of AD 68, because it was in that month that the emperor committed suicide."
Originally posted by checkbaiterso what,
From Quartz Hill School of Theology....
"This second letter to Timothy was apparently written while he was imprisoned in Rome, awaiting execution. Timothy, based on the information in 1 Timothy 1:3, was still in Ephesus. The letter was written sometime between AD 62 and 67. If the tradition is accurate regarding Paul's martyrdom during the reign of Ne ...[text shortened]... itten before June of AD 68, because it was in that month that the emperor committed suicide."
The gospel of John is dated 95+, so sure it is not included.
Another point the NT is not collected the way it is today until 381 (when the book of hebrews, Revelation, and another book I don't remember were accepted as canon)
So sure Paul didn't mean the NT is 2 Tim.
Originally posted by ahosyneyIf I say, "you don't get it", or, "you're missing the point", what do you think I mean? Do you think I'm saying you're stupid?
So when Paul says
[b](king James Version)(Galatians)(Gal-5-2)(Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.)
You still believe that GOD who wrote this specific verse.[/b]
It is Gods' will that you believe in him, and all that the men that were inspired by him to write, for your enlightenment. If you believe in God, then believe that the words he inspired men to write are his words. But if you don't believe, then don't waste your time trying to convince me otherwise. I'm sold out!
Originally posted by josephwI'm afraid that is exactly what you convey ("You are stupid."😉 From you own words: "Don't waste your time trying to convince me otherwise. I'm sold out!"
If I say, "you don't get it", or, "you're missing the point", what do you think I mean? Do you think I'm saying you're stupid?
It is Gods' will that you believe in him, and all that the men that were inspired by him to write, for your enlightenment. If you believe in God, then believe that the words he inspired men to write are his words. But if you don't believe, then don't waste your time trying to convince me otherwise. I'm sold out!
Originally posted by josephwThats such a silly statement. Think about it for a bit.
If you believe in God, then believe that the words he inspired men to write are his words.
Belief in God does not imply belief that God inspired anyone to write anything. Nor does belief in God imply that what you believe are the inspired word of God actually are the inspired words of God.
By the way I think that ahosney does believe that "the words he inspired men to write are his words" but that the words in question are found in the Qu'ran.
Originally posted by kirksey957I don't think he's stupid! And if you want to make that accusation, go ahead.
I'm afraid that is exactly what you convey ("You are stupid."😉 From you own words: "Don't waste your time trying to convince me otherwise. I'm sold out!"
I will not equivocate on the truth. Jesus Christ is Lord. No on can convince me otherwise. I'm standing my ground. To do otherwise is "wimpy".
Now, if someone were to show me how I misinterpreted a verse, or misapplied some doctrine, then I'm open to a discussion. But no one has ever been able to prove to me that the bible isn't Gods' word. Inerrant, infallible, or contradictory.
The problem is, that those who here me say that get all emotional about it, and then make accusations and call me names.
I don't think they really even read my whole post half the time. As soon as they see a 'buzz' word their mental faculties shut down, and they fly into a rage. Talk about prejudice. They think all christians are bigoted morons. And nothing could be further from the truth.
Originally posted by twhiteheadBy the way I think that ahosney does believe that "the words he inspired men to write are his words" but that the words in question are found in the Qu'ran.[/b]
Thats such a silly statement. Think about it for a bit.
Belief in God does not imply belief that God inspired anyone to write anything. Nor does belief in God imply that what you believe are the inspired word of God actually are the inspired words of God.
By the way I think that ahosney does believe that "the words he inspired men to write are his words" but that the words in question are found in the Qu'ran.
That's right. Now all you have to do is find out who's right.
Why should it be silly for me to believe the bible is Gods' word? It's what I believe. I make no apologize for that. You have no idea how liberating it is to know the truth.
But I also know how "silly" that sounds to you.
I guess I'm just the proverbial "fool" for Christ.
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Originally posted by twhiteheadBy the way I think that ahosney does believe that "the words he inspired men to write are his words" but that the words in question are found in the Qu'ran.
Thats such a silly statement. Think about it for a bit.
Belief in God does not imply belief that God inspired anyone to write anything. Nor does belief in God imply that what you believe are the inspired word of God actually are the inspired words of God.
By the way I think that ahosney does believe that "the words he inspired men to write are his words" but that the words in question are found in the Qu'ran.
Not exactly
I believe it is the direct words of GOD,
We Muslims believe that GOD wrote Quran himself (writing for GOD is different), and he send it to the prophet (who was not able to write). The prophet memorized it and give it to his followers who memorized it as well, and also wrote it.
In Quran GOD always the speaker. There is no verse that say "Hay I'm Mohammed telling you this ........" .
but I have other reasons to believe so than "if you believe in GOD then you must believe that GOD inspired it" ....
Originally posted by josephwDon't you understand that when you say thing like this: "don't waste your time trying to convince me otherwise. I'm sold out!" you promote the sterotype of the unthinking christian? Maybe you mean it a different way, but when i see words like that it tells me that the person who spoke (typed) them has no intellectual curiosity, and is in effect done learning.
I don't think he's stupid! And if you want to make that accusation, go ahead.
I will not equivocate on the truth. Jesus Christ is Lord. No on can convince me otherwise. I'm standing my ground. To do otherwise is "wimpy".
Now, if someone were to show me how I misinterpreted a verse, or misapplied some doctrine, then I'm open to a discussion. But no one has ...[text shortened]... think all christians are bigoted morons. And nothing could be further from the truth.
Originally posted by josephwWhat if you two play a game of chess to prove whose God is stronger. You can post it so we can all follow it.
By the way I think that ahosney does believe that "the words he inspired men to write are his words" but that the words in question are found in the Qu'ran.
That's right. Now all you have to do is find out who's right.
Why should it be silly for me to believe the bible is Gods' word? It's what I believe. I make no apologize for that. You have no id ...[text shortened]... how "silly" that sounds to you.
I guess I'm just the proverbial "fool" for Christ.[/b]
Originally posted by kirksey957🙂
What if you two play a game of chess to prove whose God is stronger. You can post it so we can all follow it.
I did that before , don't you remember,
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I'm not trying to show that Quran is a stronger word. I was just answering the point raised by Twithead.
No one here knows enough about Quran (or I think so).
Originally posted by ahosyneyI did a search and can't find the game. It must have been a private game. Or maybe Jesus/Allah smote the record of the game as the loser poorly represented their God.
🙂
I did that before , don't you remember,
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I'm not trying to show that Quran is a stronger word. I was just answering the point raised by Twithead.
No one here knows enough about Quran (or I think so).
Originally posted by kirksey957No I didn't do with Joseph, it was with jaywill..
I did a search and can't find the game. It must have been a private game. Or maybe Jesus/Allah smote the record of the game as the loser poorly represented their God.
http://www.redhotpawn.com/core/playchess.php?gameid=2782435
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Jesus will always be with Allah, he is his prophet , don't you know 😉