Originally posted by lucifershammerYes, I'm filled with indignation at the vicious and cruel way the monsters who ran your Church treated a man for doing nothing more than writing his theories and trying to avoid being killed for it. Only the most heartless, pitiless SOB wouldn't be. Your idea of "pressure" and "coercion" is laughable when applied to Galileo; I suggest you buy a dictionary - G had no way to pressure the Church and certainly no way to coerce them. The Church could have him killed if they pleased and would have if he hadn't degraded himself before these criminals.
You're full of righteous indignation, aren't you?
How did Galileo pressure and coerce the hierarchy of the Church? Simple - by his actions before his trial.
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Originally posted by lucifershammerWhat sort of defense is this? It doesn't even apply. Galileo's motive wasn't to perturb the Church and lure them into imprisoning him. It was to understand the world and to share his ideas.
No, it's the "raped woman shouldn't be dancing naked in front of a know rapist singing 'Come get me if you can'" argument.
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BTW, LH you shouldn't so smugly tell someone they need to "research this aspect of history" as you did earlier in this thread, when you have never bothered to read the actual documents used at the trial. I still believe it's possible that Galileo was actually physically tortured; the final judgment says he was "rigourously examined" which is quite possibly a euphemism. In any event, you are certainly ignorant of the facts of the case itself; I suggest you carefully peruse the link I gave.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesYou don't understand; he was viciously trying to pressure and coerce the Church to adopting his unscientific theories as dogma. But the Church as tireless defender of scientific truth thwarted his evil plan.
What sort of defense is this? It doesn't even apply. Galileo's motive wasn't to perturb the Church and lure them into imprisoning him. It was to understand the world and to share his ideas.
Originally posted by no1marauderSuch a fantasy has no basis in reality. Only a person brainwashed by CRISIS Magazine could actually believe it.
You don't understand; he was viciously trying to pressure and coerce the Church to adopting his unscientific theories as dogma. But the Church as tireless defender of scientific truth thwarted his evil plan.
Originally posted by no1marauder1. Galileo didn't just "[write] his theories and [try] to avoid being killed for it". He tried to get the Church to officially endorse his theories as truth (and he couldn't even prove it).
Yes, I'm filled with indignation at the vicious and cruel way the monsters who ran your Church treated a man for doing nothing more than writing his theories and trying to avoid being killed for it. Only the most heartless, pitiless SOB wouldn't be. Your idea of "pressure" and "coercion" is laughable when applied to Galileo; I suggest you buy a dictionar ...[text shortened]... lled if they pleased and would have if he hadn't degraded himself before these criminals.
2. Galileo was a prominent public personality in his time. When someone with his level of public visibility and learning begins a PR campaign, it is not hard to see that he is putting pressure on the Church.
3. Galileo probably thought he was too influential and had too many powerful friends for his case to come up before the Inquisition.
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesThe dancing woman wasn't trying to get raped, either.
What sort of defense is this? It doesn't even apply. Galileo's motive wasn't to perturb the Church and lure them into imprisoning him. It was to understand the world and to share his ideas.
Galileo wasn't simply trying to "understand the world and share his ideas" - he wanted the Church to bend to his will and declare his ideas true (even ignoring the findings of fellow-heliocentricist Kepler in the process).
Originally posted by no1marauderThe first part of your statement is more or less true. The second isn't.
You don't understand; he was viciously trying to pressure and coerce the Church to adopting his unscientific theories as dogma. But the Church as tireless defender of scientific truth thwarted his evil plan.
Originally posted by lucifershammerWhat narcissism! Much like the earth, the Church is not the center of everybody's universe.
2. Galileo was a prominent public personality in his time. When someone with his level of public visibility and learning begins a PR campaign, it is not hard to see that he is putting pressure on the Church.
Originally posted by lucifershammerYes, because there were people in the Church lobbying to get him killed. And the Church could do it. Your version of reality is completely warped - it is just another case of "blaming the victim".
The Church may or may not be the center of everybody's universe, but it certainly was at the heart of Galileo's letters and pamphlets.
BTW, was Galileo threatened with torture? Did you ever read the historical documents of the trial before you told others they should get the historical facts? Now there's some real "intellectual dishonesty".
Originally posted by lucifershammerWhat a nightmare, bizarro world you live in.
The dancing woman wasn't trying to get raped, either.
Galileo wasn't simply trying to "understand the world and share his ideas" - he wanted the Church to bend to his will and declare his ideas true (even ignoring the findings of fellow-heliocentricist Kepler in the process).
Originally posted by lucifershammerHow so? You've said over and over and over again that if Galileo could have "proven" his theories scientifically the Church would have accepted them. I mean they did 200 years later! So it's clear that the Church was only interested in finding scientific truth and couldn't have cared less that the heliocentric model contradicted Scripture as Scripture was accepted in Church dogma. Doesn't that logically follow from your premises?
The first part of your statement is more or less true. The second isn't.