1. Standard memberColetti
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    12 May '05 17:19
    Why must all things die? What is the "natural" necessity for aging and death?
  2. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    12 May '05 17:221 edit
    Originally posted by Coletti
    Why must all things die? What is the "natural" necessity for aging and death?
    Limited resources constrain the population. If you had no deaths, you'd also have to have no births, otherwise a contradiction would ensue, for you would have an unlimited population consuming a finite pool of resources forever.
  3. Standard memberfrogstomp
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    12 May '05 17:41
    Originally posted by Coletti
    Why must all things die? What is the "natural" necessity for aging and death?
    I hate to ask this, but how do you know all things must die?

    And: Is there really a necessity for aging and death?

  4. Standard memberColetti
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    12 May '05 18:13
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Limited resources constrain the population. If you had no deaths, you'd also have to have no births, otherwise a contradiction would ensue, for you would have an unlimited population consuming a finite pool of resources forever.
    The limited resources would limit the population automatically. They already do. Animals fight for survival - eat other animals, starve when there's not food, fatten up when there is. With all the other ways to die, what's the point of dieing of old age? Really, how often do animals die of old age?

    Births are necessary in any case to replenish animals who die of other causes. There's no direct link between old age death and birth is there?
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    12 May '05 18:15
    Originally posted by Coletti
    Why must all things die? What is the "natural" necessity for aging and death?
    Didn't God deem death necessary after The Fall?
  6. Standard memberColetti
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    12 May '05 18:16
    Originally posted by frogstomp
    I hate to ask this, but how do you know all things must die?

    And: Is there really a necessity for aging and death?

    Aside from supernatural intervention - can one live forever. Everything gets old and dies at some point. Death and taxes right?

    I don't know if there's a law of aging like there is for gravity.
  7. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    12 May '05 18:181 edit
    Originally posted by Coletti
    The limited resources would limit the population automatically. They already do. Animals fight for survival - eat other animals, starve when there's not food, fatten up when there is. With all the other ways to die, what's the point of dieing of old age? Really, how often do animals die of old age?

    Births are necessary in any case to replenish animals who die of other causes. There's no direct link between old age death and birth is there?



    You asked why all things must die. That was the question I was addressing. I was not addressing the question of why all things must age.
  8. Standard memberColetti
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    12 May '05 18:231 edit
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Originally posted by Coletti
    [b]The limited resources would limit the population automatically. They already do. Animals fight for survival - eat other animals, starve when there's not food, fatten up when there is. With ...[text shortened]... I was not addressing the question of why all things must age.
    [/b]
    I'm asking why must all things die even if nothing kills them outright. Even if you live right and get you excersie - you're still going to die - but why? Everything dies eventually.
  9. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    12 May '05 18:291 edit
    Originally posted by Coletti
    I'm asking why must all things die even if nothing kills them outright.
    It's time for me to play your game.

    All things must die because Stephen King said so.

    "Each man owes a death.", The Dark Tower, Book VII.
  10. Standard memberColetti
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    12 May '05 18:43
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    It's time for me to play your game.

    All things must die because Stephen King said so.

    "Each man owes a death.", The Dark Tower, Book VII.
    You have discovered the inspiration of this thread. I'm listening the the Dark Tower on tape. Got me thinking.

    So what is the scientific explanation of the necessity of death? Is it a scientific law?
  11. Donationkirksey957
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    12 May '05 18:45
    Originally posted by Coletti
    You have discovered the inspiration of this thread. I'm listening the the Dark Tower on tape. Got me thinking.

    So what is the scientific explanation of the necessity of death? Is it a scientific law?
    How about the model of a parabola? Perhaps this is an archetypal model for increase/decrease time.
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    12 May '05 18:55
    Originally posted by Coletti
    So what is the scientific explanation of the necessity of death?
    Compounded phenomena are impermanent.

    I don't think you can view death as a necessity, but as the unfailing outcome of having taken birth.
  13. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    12 May '05 19:03
    Originally posted by Coletti
    The limited resources would limit the population automatically. They already do. Animals fight for survival - eat other animals, starve when there's not food, fatten up when there is. With all the other ways to die, what's the point of dieing of old age? Really, how often do animals die of old age?

    Births are necessary in any case to replenish animals who die of other causes. There's no direct link between old age death and birth is there?
    On the surface, it would seem evolutionary theory would predict animals not die of old age. An animal that evolved the ability to stop death from old age - as well as the aging process in general - would be able to have more babies. This means it should be a selective advantage.

    We already know populations increase beyond the ability of the resources to support them. Death from old age does not stop this. It's one of the basic observations Darwin made which led him to the original TOE.

    I don't know how evolutionary theory addresses this Coletti. I'll keep my eyes open for any explanations that may be out there and see if I think they are viable ones.
  14. Gangster Land
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    12 May '05 20:261 edit
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    It's time for me to play your game.

    All things must die because Stephen King said so.

    "Each man owes a death.", The Dark Tower, Book VII.
    You know, the ending of that series of books still has me messed up.

    TheSkipper

    EDIT: My first message contained what might be considered spoilers.
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    12 May '05 20:50
    Originally posted by Coletti
    Why must all things die? What is the "natural" necessity for aging and death?
    GOD warned man that if he touched or ate from the Tree of The Knowledge of God and Evil, he would die. That was the beginning of death on the Earth. So all things on earth grow old and die,some slower than others.
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