3 edits
From same site - Atheism and Mass Murder
To the history revisionists of the Spiritualty Forum.
Why did it all happen ?
'Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened.' says Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Nobel Prize winner Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn was asked to account for the great tragedies that occurred under the brutal communist regime he and fellow citizens suffered under.
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn offered the following explanation:
“Over a half century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of old people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: 'Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened.'
Since then I have spend well-nigh 50 years working on the history of our revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: 'Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened.' [15]
my bolding
@sonship saidThere are worse things than atheism ... a Christian who rejects the teachings of Christ. An atheist who professes to know no God but who still lives according to his conscience will fare better on the day of judgment.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
What grade do you give your atheism which is clueless about everything ?
1 edit
@caissad4 saidSatan [according to Jewish literature] originally one of the lead angels, led a rebellion against God maybe millions of years ago. God, in my opinion creates worlds and intelligent life and leaves it to run on autopilot [or maybe with the help of angels] until the appointed time for that era to end and for people to be judged.
Hmmm.... God creates Satan knowing that he will wage war on god. God knows that Satan will corrupt millions of humans and doom them to eternal torment and he still created Satan. Your god also condones genocide, murder, rape and a host of nasty, nasty things. Your god is actually much more evil than you make Satan out to be.
Satan and your god seem like minded, but your god has done more evil things.
The idea that God is sitting out there watching the earth 24/7 is complete nonsense, and just fabricated by small minded religious jokers.
The universe is a huge creation of God who continues to build and to build. Im pretty sure there are millions of inhabited worlds. Maybe in every galaxy [there are billions] there must be at least one planet with intelligent advanced forms of life.
To manage all of that there are appointed times for everything. Satans time will come.
Phew. Thank goodness no tenuous link can be made between Christianity and mass murder.
Ghost of a Duke - Democratic Atheist.
Your inconsistency is noted whenever you launch a criticism of Christianity.
If YOU do it, well it is OK for all the "brothers and sisters" Christians mistakenly caught up in a wayward apostate system. You can call a spade a spade. No problem.
BUT if Witness Lee, or A.W. Tozer, or Martin Luther, or John Warmick Mongomery bemoans how Christianity institutions have fallen into the hands of evil spiritual forces, Oh, now THAT is different.
Then its " Shame, shame, shame on you for criticizing those religious systems, saying they are organizations of Satan."
Like I said - YOU can blast Christianity all you want as an Atheist.
But if someone who CARES to remedy the situation is frank in order to render some HELP to the believers, then they are SECTARIAN and you're ready with your guilt trip diatribes.
If Lee is bad to point out where Christianity has fallen into apostasy then it should be a no-no for YOU to contribute your version of the problems.
Stop talking out of both sides of your mouth there.
@sonship saidIf a tenuous link can be made between atheism and mass murder, why can't the same link be made with Christianity?
@Ghost-of-a-DukePhew. Thank goodness no tenuous link can be made between Christianity and mass murder.
Ghost of a Duke - Democratic Atheist.
Your inconsistency is noted whenever you launch a criticism of Christianity.
If YOU do it, well it is OK for all the "brothers and sisters" Christians mistakenly caught up in a wayward apostate system. Yo ...[text shortened]... to contribute your version of the problems.
Stop talking out of both sides of your mouth there.
I genuinely believe you don't think things through.
@rajk999 saidWell yes you are wrong.
I would guess that the Devil and other beings like him [if there are such things], are already immortal and cannot be killed. Hence the reason why God can only hold them or lock them down and torture them. This is the reason why God chased Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden. They could have eaten next from the tree of life and got immortality.
Go to your bible and look this up in Revelation.
Revelation 20:1-3
20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven ( Jesus ) with the keys of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years. 3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while."
So we all know that for those thousands years Satan will be in an abyss or in a dark spiritual type confinement. But he is still alive for those 1000 years and will eventually be released back on earth to test mankind one more time or "for a little while" as the Bible says..
Now what happens to him after that "little while" is up?
Revelation 20:7-9
7 Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and MaŹ¹gog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they advanced over the whole earth and encircled the camp of the holy ones and the beloved city. But fire came down out of heaven and consumed them."
Notice at the end of verse 9 it says they which includes Satan will be consumed by fire for complete destruction which would mean he will never exist again......
2 edits
If a tenuous link can be made between atheism and mass murder, why can't the same link be made with Christianity?
I genuinely believe you don't think things through.
I didn't say no link could be made between Christianity and the crimes carried out under its name.
Strawman.
I said, When YOU criticize those crimes as a skeptical atheist, its fine.
When a Christian servant of God trumpets a warning of such problems, then he's sectarian, unloving, divisive and you're ready ad infinitum to portray him as un-Christ like.
That's why you relish coming back again and again to your quotation from Lee. You won't read anything else apparently. But you love to hate what he said. You say something akin or like it, that's good talk of course.
More than any other atheists here, you are the atheist with a dog in the fight over Christianity. Strange. "Don't talk bad about it !" ... "But I can. "
@galveston75 saidWhy did you leave out verse 10? Is it your intention to deceive? V 10 says:
Well yes you are wrong.
Go to your bible and look this up in Revelation.
Revelation 20:1-3
20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven ( Jesus ) with the keys of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 He seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for 1,000 years. 3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and s ...[text shortened]... n will be consumed by fire for complete destruction which would mean he will never exist again......
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10 KJV)
Tormented for ever and ever, is not the same as complete destruction. It means they continue to exist but in torment.
@sonship saidYou brought a dreadfully weak link to the forum between atheism and communism/mass murder.
@Ghost-of-a-DukeIf a tenuous link can be made between atheism and mass murder, why can't the same link be made with Christianity?
I genuinely believe you don't think things through.
I didn't say no link could be made between Christianity and the crimes carried out under its name.
Strawman.
I said, When YOU criticize those crimes as a ske ...[text shortened]... st with a dog in the fight over Christianity. Strange. "Don't talk bad about it !" ... "But I can. "
I can only assume you ran out of rational arguments.
1 edit
@rajk999 saidSo why are you ignoring verse 9?
Why did you leave out verse 10? Is it your intention to deceive? V 10 says:
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10 KJV)
Tormented for ever and ever, is not the same as complete destruction. It means they continue to exist but in torment.
9 "But fire came down out of heaven and "consumed" them."
Synonyms and Antonyms of consume
1 to destroy all trace of
massive fires had consumed hundreds of square miles of forest
Synonyms of consume
devour, eat (up)
Words Related to consume
gut
deplete, drain, exhaust, expend, spend, use up
annihilate, decimate, demolish, desolate, devastate, do in, pulverize, raze, ruin, shatter, smash, tear down, waste, wreck
annihilate, blot out, eradicate, exterminate, extinguish, extirpate, obliterate, remove, rub out, stamp (out), wipe out."
If something is consumed by fire, say a book. Will you ever be able to read that book again? Could you even open the pages? Think about it..................
So do these verses mean completely different things? Is this an inconsistency? No it isn't. Again if you understood what the Lake of Fire was you would see that it is not a real place of suffering forever. Those scriptures are speaking of the same place or ending which is simply destruction forever with no resurrection or existence. Remember the bible says that "death" will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. So is the thing we call death and Hades going to suffer forever and be tormented? If you believe that then you have some issues with understanding the bible.
4 edits
I can only assume you ran out of rational arguments.
Like you know more about the link between atheism and Soviet communism then Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn. Daydream on.
“Over a half century ago, while I was still a child, I recall hearing a number of old people offer the following explanation for the great disasters that had befallen Russia: 'Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened.'
Since then I have spend well-nigh 50 years working on the history of our revolution; in the process I have read hundreds of books, collected hundreds of personal testimonies, and have already contributed eight volumes of my own toward the effort of clearing away the rubble left by that upheaval. But if I were asked today to formulate as concisely as possible the main cause of the ruinous revolution that swallowed up some 60 million of our people, I could not put it more accurately than to repeat: 'Men have forgotten God; that's why all this has happened.'
my bolding