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Originally posted by jaywillDo you have any solutions or prescriptions to real world problems that do not involve taking on the dubious assumption of some nebulous supernatural being? Major obstacles with your approach include (1) it is not at all clear how such a prescription actually addresses the problem in any genuine way and (2) some of us do not care to be so profligate with our metaphysical commitments.
[quote] That is complete nonsense. How about actually addressing the problem in some genuine way, rather than just replacing it with new ones. This seems somewhat characteristic of Christians, old or new: they tend to suggest that the only way to do this or that is to submit to their confused, dubious metaphysics; and they tend to offer non-solutions to real rom many foolish acts.
So I love Him.
The fear of the Lord is the hatred of evil.
Have you ever read anything out of Foxe's Book of Martyrs ?.
I believe that so many of these faithful Christians witnesses had gotten the fear of man out of them. They feared God and falling short of being faithful to Christ. And Christ empowered them. Christ upheld them. Christ energized them from within. Christ made them stand by His powerful grace.
No, I have not read that work. By the way, what does any of this have to do with supporting the earlier claim in question? It will do you little good to support the claim that fear of God can in some instances help assuage (or just replace) more earthly fears. That has little to do with the earlier claim. The substance of the earlier claim is that fear of God is the only way to accomplish this, remember? That's what you would actually need to support.
Originally posted by jaywill1. God is not dependable (unless you count the fact that you can depend on him to hide all evidence of his existance)
Many love God because God is like a Rock - so dependable, so trustworthy.
Some love God because He is so beautiful. He who created all beauty and is the source of such is Himself the Beautiful One.
There are so many reasons why we can love God. We can love God for Himself, not for what He does for us, but just because He is altogether Wonderfu ...[text shortened]... one Beacon of Light that keeps me sane - the life of Jesus Christ. He is the light of the world.
2. Trustworthy? What can you trust a god who "moves in mysterious ways" to do?
3. Beautiful? Have you seen him/her/it?
You people make up crazy supernatural beings then decide you "love" this thing you have no real knowledge of (except for what you havr made up) then try to rationalise this love with more nonsense.
Almost beyond belief.
Originally posted by jaywillIt's OK, we can skip over the analysis of all those fear quotes.
[quote] 12:4-5 "I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.
>>Teaches only the sinner to fear, OR teaches God is arbitrary. and at 7, he says, "Don’t be ...[text shortened]... lity that some defeated Christians might BE hurt of the second death temporarily.
A reading of the Matthew passage is that the command is to fear not the displeasure of man, but that of God. But I don't see fear as a lasting or rest-state, which the person should find satisfactory as a relation to God. I see it as a spur to action. Love, on the other hand, can abide in the soul. So I don't see Jesus's advice being to fear, but rather to recognize fear as a spur to thought and action, a spur which will be abated or assuaged by proper thought and action. This also happens to be the natural role we have fears, and there is no contradiction in seeing fear as having a similar supernatural role.
Originally posted by jaywillYou can love anyone you want, even anyone with a nice beard. I'm not homophobic.My boss is more beautiful than your god. She has no beard.
No. In spite of the your try at humor, I don't believe it proves that you have a healthy libido. Maybe, sexually and emotionally you're a loser.
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Originally posted by jaywillpeople don't love god, they just say they do because it's a requirement of their god.
Many love God because God is like a Rock - so dependable, so trustworthy.
Some love God because He is so beautiful. He who created all beauty and is the source of such is Himself the Beautiful One.
There are so many reasons why we can love God. We can love God for Himself, not for what He does for us, but just because He is altogether Wonderfu ...[text shortened]... one Beacon of Light that keeps me sane - the life of Jesus Christ. He is the light of the world.
Originally posted by jaywillKept you from what? Preserved you from what? Were they things that you could not see were harmful to you without fear? Why would you have done them if you did not fear God?
On the negative side the fear of God has often kept me and preserved me.
On the positive side the fear of God has empowered me and enabled me.
Explain a bit more here. How has this fear been empowering and enabling? Were you able to do things you were afraid of, but less afraid of than God?
There is also the fear of simply missing the enjoyment of living God.
Now you are subtly moving to something quite different.
The fear of the vanity of not knowing where one comes from or where one is going or why one is alive.
Is that why you cling to your faith? You fear not knowing?
I would not want to trade places with the athiest for a millisecond. It is terrible to be in such darkness.
Well it doesn't bother me much at all, so I think you would probably benefit from trading places. It clearly leaves you in fear even though you think you have overcome it.
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Originally posted by twhiteheadIt actually says "the fear of the vanity of not knowing".
Kept you from what? Preserved you from what? Were they things that you could not see were harmful to you without fear? Why would you have done them if you did not fear God?
[b]On the positive side the fear of God has empowered me and enabled me.
Explain a bit more here. How has this fear been empowering and enabling? Were you able to do things you from trading places. It clearly leaves you in fear even though you think you have overcome it.[/b]
I suspect this is just a mistake, and what was intended is what you have taken it to mean, but if not, I am intrigued. Why is not knowing something vanity? I would have thought it the opposite, or at least irrelevant to the concept.
Can jaywill confirm or clarify?
Originally posted by jaywill
On the negative side the fear of God has often kept me and preserved me.
On the positive side the fear of God has empowered me and enabled me.
There is also the fear of simply missing the enjoyment of living God.
The fear of the emptiness of life without God which I tasted and have no desire to return to.
The fear of the vanity of not knowing wh ...[text shortened]... ut the [b]"heavenly Father". Once having tasted it, I would never want to return to it.[/b]
I would not want to trade places with the athiest for a millisecond. It is terrible to be in such darkness.
So the "fear of God" is also the fear of the vacuum of emptiness without the "heavenly Father". Once having tasted it, I would never want to return to it.
We each deal, one way or the other, with the prospect of death.
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Originally posted by LemonJelloHere on the five continents you will find hundreds of practical Christian communitites as local churches which live in the real world and apply the principles of the kingdom of God in a communal way to totally real world situations.
Do you have any solutions or prescriptions to real world problems that do not involve taking on the dubious assumption of some nebulous supernatural being? Major obstacles with your approach include (1) it is not at all clear how such a prescription actually addresses the problem in any genuine way and (2) some of us do not care to be so profligate with is the only way to accomplish this, remember? That's what you would actually need to support.
www.localchurches.org (Intro)
http://www.localchurches.org/contact-us/index.htm (World Wide Map )
List the local communities, please, which adhere to your principles of living.
Originally posted by jaywillSo I take it that you simply have no support for the earlier claim in question, is that about right?
Here on the five continents you will find hundreds of practical Christian communitites as local churches which live in the real world and apply the principles of the kingdom of God in a communal way to totally real world situations.
www.localchurches.org (Intro)
http://www.localchurches.org/contact-us/index.htm (Worl ...[text shortened]... Wide Map )
List the local communities, please, which adhere to your principles of living.
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Originally posted by VoidSpiritA Rich Song on Christians' Love for Christ: (Hymn 510 Living Stream Ministry Hymns, copied without permission )
people don't love god, they just say they do because it's a requirement of their god.
I've found the One of peerless worth,
My heart doth sing for joy;
And sing I must, for Christ I have :
Oh, what a Christ have I !
My Christ, He is the Lamb of God,
Who full salvation brings;
He is the Sun of Righteousness,
With healing in His wings.
My Christ, He is the Tree of Life
With fruit abundant sweet;
My hunger He doth satisfy;
Of Him I daily eat.
My Christ, He is the smitten Rock
Whence living waters burst;
He is the fountain in my heart
Which quenches all my thirst.
Christ is my life, my light, may way,
My comfort and my health,
My peace, my rest, my joy, my hope,
My glory and my wealth.
Christ is my wisdom and my power,
My boast and righteousness,
My victory and redemption sure,
My truth and holiness.
Christ is my Savior, Shepherd, Lord,
My Advocate above,
My Counsellor, my Father, God,
My Brother, Friend, and Love.
Christ is my Captain and my Guard,
My Teacher and my Guide,
My Bridegroom, Master and my Head;
In me doth He reside.
Christ is my Prophet, Priest, and King;
My Prophet full of sight;
My Priest that stands twixt me and God,
My King that rules with might.
Christ is the Author of my faith,
And its Perfector too,
My Mediator, Guarantee,
And faithful Witness true.
Christ is my everlasting home.
My all-sufficient land;
My fortress, tower, hiding-place,
And my eternal stand.
Christ is my sabbath and new moon,
My morning and my day,
My age and my eternity
That ne'er will pass away.
Christ is my trust and my desire,
In comeliness replete,
My satisfaction and delight,
Who all my need doth meet.
My Christ, the all-inclusive One,
My Christ what shall I call ?
He is the first, He is the last,
My Christ is All in all.
Since such a treasure I possess,
My heart doth sing for joy;
And I must sing and sing again;
Oh, what a Christ have I !
Originally posted by jaywillyes, as you must love or else, you'll find many such hymns in christianity.
A Rich Song on Christians' [b] Love for Christ: (Hymn 510 Living Stream Ministry Hymns, copied without permission )
I've found the One of peerless worth,
My heart doth sing for joy;
And sing I must, for Christ I have :
Oh, what a Christ have I !
My Christ, He is the Lamb of God,
Who full salvation brings;
He is the Sun of Righteou ...[text shortened]... heart doth sing for joy;
And I must sing and sing again;
Oh, what a Christ have I ! [/b][/b]
some of them are actually good.
here are a couple free e-books for you, works of paul gerhardt and one about him.
[i don't know for sure, you might need a google account to view them.]
http://books.google.com/books?id=fg8DAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=u9JLx4HLAmMC&printsec=titlepage#v=onepage&q&f=false