Why I don't believe the Bible

Originally posted by Penguin
Oy, what about me? Don't I count?

Don't wanna play no more. Not talking to you.

Sniff.

😉

--- Penguin.

godforsaken forum! the forces of atheism are , Noobster, Whitey, Hamilton, Mikeholm,
Agers the greatest miscreant of all, Sonhouse, and Penguin, a leauge of super villains!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
is this the type of empty deception and ludicrous claims that the forces of atheism
must now resort? dear oh dear, it makes a mockery of atheism. Lets see

1. Bible mentions real places, that one can visit, does the book of Tolkein not also
mention places, has anyone visited them?

2. Bible mentions real events, the Jewish diaspora for examp made a mockery of atheism, which
must resort to such lowly argumentation, April fools or not.

is this the type of empty deception and ludicrous claims that the forces of atheism
must now resort? dear oh dear, it makes a mockery of atheism. Lets see

1. Bible mentions real places, that one can visit, does the book of Tolkein not also
mention places, has anyone visited them?
Yes, it mentions Earth! Is Earth not a real place!??? 😕

2. Bible mentions real events, the Jewish diaspora for example, does lord of the
rings not also mention events, are they corroborated outside of its text?

Yes many times!, for example it mentions the one ring, and this is corroborated by reading The Hobbit!

3.Bible mentions secular rulers, Roman Governorships, Judean Kings, Persian
satraps, Egyptian Pharaohs, who actually did exist, does not the Lord of the rings
also mention rulers, is there any corroborative evidence to show that they existed?

Yes...it mentions elves like Galadriel and Legolas...there are still descendents of these people living today who speak the elvish tongue!

4. Bible mentions prophecy's that have actually taken place, the destruction of
Jerusalem for example, in which Cestus Gallas and then Titus utterly vanquished
the Jewish nation, killing or capturing over , one million persons, and raising
Jerusalem to the ground. What prophecies have been corroborated by secular
history in the Lord of the Rings?

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion-philosophy/810471-what-best-examples-prophecies-bible-have.html#ixzz1IGjc2Hlm
Now since I'm not an atheist anymore I'm not going to suggest that such prophecies did not specify precise details (and could have been fulfilled at many other times with creative interpretation) and were made true by those who had already read your false book afterwards but consider the following:
:
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.

This was mentioned in the first book of LoTR and it actually came true in the third!!!!!!!


5. Biblical miracles are utterly without any affectation, indeed they are almost
matter of fact, they were always done in public and had testimony from eye
witnesses at the time, in contrast, those of the lord of the rings are utterly fantastic,
illusionary pieces of base deception and conjurers tricks.
Like the supposed parting of the red sea and stuff!?
Anyway much of the magic that occurs in LoTR is matter of fact, of course sometimes things got a bit dramatic but you have to remember it was a dark time back in those days

Five simple points which not only proves the unreliability of Agers utterly vain
attempts to excuse himself from admitting, that yes indeed the Bible is reliable, but
in mocking the ancient text, he has unwittingly made a mockery of atheism, which
must resort to such lowly argumentation, April fools or not.
Admit the Bible is reliable!? I couldn't even do that when I was an atheist - saw it as a work of fiction written by human authors so I did! and I'm certainly not going to admit it's reliable now given that I'm a bona-fide Tolkeinist 🙂

Originally posted by Agerg
is this the type of empty deception and ludicrous claims that the forces of atheism
must now resort? dear oh dear, it makes a mockery of atheism. Lets see

1. Bible mentions real places, that one can visit, does the book of Tolkein not also
mention places, has anyone visited them?[/b]
Yes, it mentions Earth! Is Earth not a real place!??? 😕

2. Bi certainly not going to admit it's reliable now given that I'm a bona-fide Tolkeinist 🙂

bumf, the whole lot, super unadulterated bumf!

point number one, Agers assertion, Lord of the Rings contains real places

- Amon Hen
- Argonath
- Falls of Rauros
- Gladden Fields
- Nen Hithoel
- Parth Galen
- Tol Brandir

Fangorn Forest:
- Treebeard's Hill
- Uruk-hai Camp
- Waking Tree

Gondor:
- Beacons of Gondor
- The Citadel
- High Court
- Minas Tirith
- Osgiliath
- Paths of the Dead
- Pelennor Fields
- Tombs of the Stewards
- White Tree

Isengard:
- Fords of Isen
- Isengard Caverns
- Inner Chamber
- Tower of Orthanc

Ithilien
-:Ephel Duath Hills
-:Forbidden Pool
-:Henneth Annûn
- Ithilien Camp
-:Northern Ithilien

Lothlórien:
- Caras Galadon
- Cerin Amroth
- Mirror of Galadriel
- Silverlode River

Mordor:
- Barad-dûr
- Black Gate
- Cirith Ungol Tower
- Gorgoroth Plains
- Minas Morgul
- Mt. Doom
- Shelob's Lair
- Winding Stair

Moria:
- Balin's Tomb
- Bridge of Khazad-dûm
- Dimrill Dale
- Dwarrowdelf
- Hollin Gate Pass of Caradhras

Rivendell:
- Council of Elrond
- Gilraen's Grave
- Shards of Narsil

Rohan:
- Dunharrow
- Edoras
- Edoras Stables
- Glittering Caves
- Golden Hall
- Helm's Deep
- Hornburg
- Westfold

The Shire:
- Bag End
- Buckleberry Ferry
- Green Dragon
- Hobbiton
- Farmer Maggot's Fields

In the North:
- Bree
- Chetwood Forest
- East Road
- Ford of Bruinen
- Grey Havens
- Midgewater Marsh
- Prancing Pony
- Troll Camp
- Weathertop

In the South:
- Dagorlad (Battle Plain)
- Dead Marshes
- Emyn Muil

are these real places , if so as you are suggesting, which flight does one take to get
there, dear Agers, do tell.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
bumf, the whole lot, super unadulterated bumf!

point number one,

- Amon Hen
- Argonath
- Falls of Rauros
- Gladden Fields
- Nen Hithoel
- Parth Galen
- Tol Brandir


Fangorn Forest:
- Treebeard's Hill
- Uruk-hai Camp
- Waking Tree


Gondor:
- Beacons of Gondor
- The Citadel
- High Court
- Minas Tirith
- Osgiliath
- Paths if so as you are suggesting, which flight does one take to get there, dear Agers, do tell.

Like I said, you can't get to them anymore because Gandalf magicked the world as it was back then into the world it is now. But if you read the first book, you will see a map of middle Earth. Indeed given the events which unfolded in all of the books one can see the map was very accurate indeed! How do you explain that one away huh?

Originally posted by Agerg
Like I said, you can't get to them anymore because Gandalf magicked the world as it was back then into the world it is now. But if you read the first book, you will see a map of middle Earth. Indeed given the events which unfolded in the book one can see the map was very accurate indeed! How do you explain that one away huh?

yes, how vewy vewy convenient for you Agers, strange though, that in contrast, God
has not magicked any of the real places away, you know, the ones that you can
actually visit, on the contrary the Bible text has been used as a reliable guide to trace
places that were lost in antiquity.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes, how vewy vewy convenient for you Agers, strange though, that in contrast, God
has not magicked any of the real places away, you know, the ones that you can
actually visit, on the contrary the Bible text has been used as a reliable guide to trace
places that were lost in antiquity.

Yeah...like the `supposed' garden of Eden (not substantiated in the LoTR books)! Anyway stop mocking my beliefs, what I say to you is fact and can be easily discerned by approaching the books from an unbiased and negative slant!

Originally posted by Agerg
Yeah...like the `supposed' garden of Eden! Anyway stop mocking my beliefs, what I say to you is fact and can be easily discerned by approaching the books from an unbiased and negative slant!

no it cannot Agers, infact, you cannot point to one real place in your entire cannon,
whereas, in the case of the Garden of Eden, four rivers are mentioned, some of which
are in fact identifiable, that is, you can actually physically go to them.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no it cannot Agers, infact, you cannot point to one real place in your entire cannon,
whereas, in the case of the Garden of Eden, four rivers are mentioned, some of which
are in fact identifiable, that is, you can actually physically go to them.

Oh ok...I'll humour you for a moment, where do I find the tree of knowledge, what plane do I catch?

Originally posted by Agerg
Oh ok...I'll humour you for a moment, where do I find the tree of knowledge, what plane do I catch?

where would you find the tree of knowledge, its a past event, in the garden of Eden, where else?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no it cannot Agers, infact, you cannot point to one real place in your entire cannon,
whereas, in the case of the Garden of Eden, four rivers are mentioned, some of which
are in fact identifiable, that is, you can actually physically go to them.

and like I said, it would be pointless to try and visit them now given they've been magicked away. Indeed, how else could the world have changed from Middle Earth to Earth as it is now without powerful wizard magic!???

Clear proof that LoTR is a book of fact 😏

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
where would you find the tree of knowledge, its a past event, in the garden of Eden, where else?

oh how vewy vewy convenient for you Robbie, *past event*! ;]

Originally posted by Agerg
oh how vewy vewy convenient for you Robbie, *past event*! ;]

poor atheist, he needs every scrap of scripture that he can get, read this,

Location of Eden.

The original site of the garden of Eden is conjectural. The principal means of
identifying its geographic location is the Bible’s description of the river “issuing out
of Eden,” which thereafter divided into four “heads,” producing the rivers named as
the Euphrates, Hiddekel, Pishon, and Gihon. (Ge 2:10-14) The Euphrates is well
known, and “Hiddekel” is the name used for the Tigris in ancient inscriptions. The
other two rivers, the Pishon and the Gihon, however, are unidentified

Some, such as Calvin and Delitzsch, have argued in favor of Eden’s situation
somewhere near the head of the Persian Gulf in Lower Mesopotamia, approximately
at the place where the Tigris and the Euphrates draw near together. They
associated the Pishon and Gihon with canals between these streams. However, this
would make these rivers tributaries, rather than branches dividing off from an
original source. The Hebrew text points, rather, to a location in the mountainous
region N of the Mesopotamian plains, the area where the Euphrates and Tigris
rivers have their present sources. The fact that the Euphrates and Tigris rivers do
not now proceed from a single source, as well as the impossibility of definitely
determining the identification of the Pishon and Gihon rivers, is possibly explained
by the effects of the Noachian Flood, which undoubtedly altered considerably the
topographical features of the earth, filling in the courses of some rivers and
creating others.

The traditional location for the garden of Eden has long been suggested to have
been a mountainous area some 225 km (140 mi) SW of Mount Ararat and a few
kilometers S of Lake Van, in the eastern part of modern Turkey. That Eden may
have been surrounded by some natural barrier, such as mountains, could be
suggested by the fact that cherubs are stated to have been stationed only at the E of
the garden, from which point Adam and Eve made their exit - Ge 3:24.

After Adam’s banishment from the paradisaic garden, with no one to “cultivate it and
to take care of it,” it may be assumed that it merely grew up in natural profusion
with only the animals to inhabit its confines until it was obliterated by the surging
waters of the Flood, its location lost to man except for the divine record of its
existence - Ge 2:15.

What I have never understood is why Old Testament followers (Christians, Jews, Muslims) seem to think that the Garden of Eden was in the middle east. There is absolutely no reason to assume this is the case. I personally am convinced it was in New Zealand.
I think it is because people forget the flood.
You see, the whole world was flooded for over a month, this was achieved by bring up water from under ground and basically Terra forming the whole planet. All life other than what was on the ark was wiped out. (except possibly sea life and plants).
Of course the first mountain Noah saw, he assumed was the one he remembered back in New Zealand, so he didn't realize he had drifted halfway around the world.

Maybe this same flood is what Gandalf used to change Middle earth into what we see today and get rid of all those pesky elves and dwarves and things.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
poor atheist, he needs every scrap of scripture that he can get, read this,

Location of Eden.

The original site of the garden of Eden is conjectural. The principal means of
identifying its geographic location is the Bible’s description of the river “issuing out
of Eden,” which thereafter divided into four “heads,” producing the rivers nam ...[text shortened]... f the Flood, its location lost to man except for the divine record of its
existence - Ge 2:15.

That doesn't give me a precise location at all - merely *it might be here*, *it might be there*,...

Moreover, where in the LoTR is the Garden of Eden mentioned? It doesn't mention it once! and do you know why that is Robbie?

Originally posted by Agerg
That doesn't give me a precise location at all - merely *it might be here*, *it might be there*,...

Moreover, where in the LoTR is the Garden of Eden mentioned? It doesn't mention it once! and do you know why that is Robbie?

yes, it is stated that its conjecture, never the less, real places are mentioned, giving an
approximate location, no amount of squirming can change this dear Agers. No i dont
know why its not mentioned dear Agers, although i am sure you are going to tell me.