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Originally posted by DoctorScribblesreason on it yourself my friend in light of the bible verses that are quoted, there are many counter arguments against what we have stated, but i do not think that they hold up under scrutiny. the reasons we have given are a little, what can i say, technical, having to do with translation of Greek and Hebrew words, but the fact remains, why would a God of love and justice, punish us eternally for making mistakes when in an imperfect state, its not his way! would we as humans put our children hand in a burning flame because they made mistakes, i think not, then why would God? Yes you are correct, dead people do not, nor can they ever possibly suffer, no siree! the wages of sin is death, not punishment, nor torment!
I see. So, is the Catholic catechism wrong when it says that some people may "suffer the punishments of hell, eternal fire," since dead people cannot suffer?
Originally posted by buckkySo you will always have a problem until Christians believe what you want them to believe.
I do have a problem. I believe in God, because that's the only thing that makes sense to me, and because of numerous experinces. The Christian thing denies that any other belief or thought on the subjct is false. Thats the problem.
Originally posted by robbie carrobie"A lot can be said for the infinite mercies of God, but the smarts of a good pharmacist, when you get down to it, is worth more."
reason on it yourself my friend in light of the bible verses that are quoted, there are many counter arguments against what we have stated, but i do not think that they hold up under scrutiny. the reasons we have given are a little, what can i say, technical, having to do with translation of Greek and Hebrew words, but the fact remains, why would a ...[text shortened]... can they ever possibly suffer, no siree! the wages of sin is death, not punishment, nor torment!
Philip K. Dick ( ... supported by Shavixmir )
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Originally posted by DoctorScribblesAs far as i am aware Doc, there has only been one man who has died that never sinned, all others have committed sinful acts, you me, the Pope, everyone, its inevitable because we are imperfect! this is not an excuse for loose conduct or anything, but its a fact, that's why we pray for forgiveness, is it not ?, 'our father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name....forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors', not literal debts and debtors, but sins we have committed involuntarily against others and which they have involuntarily committed against us. we can never be truly righteous while in a state of imperfection, can we, for we will make mistakes, that is why we pray to God through the name of Christ Jesus, for he was perfect, sinless and is a mediator on our behalf, before the face of God.
But isn't it more accurate to say that the wages of life is death?
After all, everybody who lives dies, and not everybody who dies is a sinner.
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, Romans 3:23
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesNo, i don't think they were ever designed to live forever, there would be too many of them eventually, thus they suffer death, not as a result of sin, as far as i am aware, but because, you know Doc , i dunno......
But what about giraffes? Is their death the wages of sin?
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNothing conclusive. You cite an example in which God did not instruct children to be burnt, and then conclude that Hell cannot exist. Very sketchy logic.
ok Doc, here it is, i apologize for the lengthy nature of the thing, but if exercise patience and read the text, see what you think
first of all we establish the condition of the dead
Ecclesiastes 9:5 states
For the living are conscious that they will die; [b]but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anym ...[text shortened]... rest assured that no one is, or going to be tormented in a place of torture, not now, not ever.[/b]
Originally posted by Conrau Ki posted at least twenty or thirty scriptural references, with explanation and cross references, definition of terms and illustrations, if you would care to refute anything then be my guest, but given you're past record, i don't hold out much hope for a reasonable explanation of anything!
Nothing conclusive. You cite an example in which God did not instruct children to be burnt, and then conclude that Hell cannot exist. Very sketchy logic.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell, I refuted that one example. Do you acknowlegde that?
i posted at least twenty or thirty scriptural references, with explanation and cross references, definition of terms and illustrations, if you would care to refute anything then be my guest, but given you're past record, i don't hold out much hope for a reasonable explanation of anything!
Originally posted by ZahlanziAfter cleaning the toilets I killed the dog ,and molested the village Pastor. I can't get it behind me. I fear going to Hell over the whole thing. Help me !!!!
you are starting to sound like someone with a problem. i don't know why yet. were you traumatized by a priest in you childhood? did you pray for a new bike and didn't get it? did you promised god you will clean the public toilets for a year if he saves 14 year old Skippy the dog and not only did he killed skippy, but he did it after you cleaned the toilets ...[text shortened]... good things in christianity? or religions in general? or you think only christianity is evil?