Why is it so aggravating ?

Originally posted by buckky
I ask myself why does the Christian doctrine aggravate me so much, and this is what I came up with. Telling someone that they will spend eternity in Hell, because they don't see it like you see it, is beyond rude. It's savage ,and lacking in any type of kindness or understanding of humanity. It's cave man thought.
The smugness that most Christians have ab ...[text shortened]... 's read it in the Bible and shut up heathen. God said it, I believe it ,and that settles it.

"God said it, I believe it ,and that settles it."

Wrong! God said it, and that settles it.

It doesn't require that I believe it in order for it to be settled.

Don't be so aggrivated about it. You believe what you want. It's a free world.

Originally posted by buckky
I ask myself why does the Christian doctrine aggravate me so much, and this is what I came up with. Telling someone that they will spend eternity in Hell, because they don't see it like you see it, is beyond rude. It's savage ,and lacking in any type of kindness or understanding of humanity. It's cave man thought.
The smugness that most Christians have ab ...[text shortened]... 's read it in the Bible and shut up heathen. God said it, I believe it ,and that settles it.

Let's face it. The entire Bible was written just to make you angry! 😠

Originally posted by bill718
Let's face it. The entire Bible was written just to make you angry! 😠

I'm sick of it too. Why would some creep long ago want to write someting to aggravate me ? I'm cursed I tell you.

Originally posted by buckky
I'm sick of it too. Why would some creep long ago want to write someting to aggravate me ? I'm cursed I tell you.

Seriously -- put it down my friend! Go watch some sport or read the paper or something. If you must read it, then read the Psalms, the New International Version is an accessible translation. In my (limited) experience I've found that to approach God you have to do so in humility.

2nd Samuel 22 from vs 26:
With the merciful you will show yourself merciful, and with the upright man you will show yourself upright. With the pure you will show yourself pure; and with the fraudulent you will show yourself unsavory.

God is good but is completely unknown by most of us.

Originally posted by divegeester
Seriously -- put it down my friend! Go watch some sport or read the paper or something. If you must read it, then read the Psalms, the New International Version is an accessible translation. In my (limited) experience I've found that to approach God you have to do so in humility.

2nd Samuel 22 from vs 26:
With the merciful you will show your ...[text shortened]... dulent you will show yourself unsavory.

God is good but is completely unknown by most of us.

I also believe that God is good. My objection to Christianity is that God appears to be a bad God not a good one.

Originally posted by buckky
I also believe that God is good. My objection to Christianity is that God appears to be a bad God not a good one.

I often noticed that contradiction in Christianity myself: according to Christianity, “God” is supposed to be “all good” and yet he gave us “free will” so that inevitably at least some of us will do evil and then be harshly punished for it. Its like locking up a child in an almost empty room with nothing but a chocolate in its corner then telling him that he mustn’t eat the chocolate and then, if he does, you give him a real spanking and then describe yourself as “all good” and "all hart" and shout to the child that he only brought this onto himself.

Originally posted by buckky
After cleaning the toilets I killed the dog ,and molested the village Pastor. I can't get it behind me. I fear going to Hell over the whole thing. Help me !!!!

just saying, you sound like a christian seriously pissed you off or kicked you in the nuts or shot your puppy. there are good things in religion in general, not just christianity.

Originally posted by buckky
I do have a problem. I believe in God, because that's the only thing that makes sense to me, and because of numerous experinces. The Christian thing denies that any other belief or thought on the subjct is false. Thats the problem.

i already told you, not all christians think that. in fact, those that think that all that have not accepted jesus in their hearts will burn for an eternity in hell are self righteous arrogant retarded a-holes. and certainly not christian.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
I often noticed that contradiction in Christianity myself: according to Christianity, “God” is supposed to be “all good” and yet he gave us “free will” so that inevitably at least some of us will do evil and then be harshly punished for it. Its like locking up a child in an almost empty room with nothing but a chocolate in its corner then telling him ...[text shortened]... lf as “all good” and "all hart" and shout to the child that he only brought this onto himself.

our room is slightly bigger.

not to mention that a life without free will is hardly a life at all.

not to mention that all evil in this world is created by humanity😀

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
just saying, you sound like a christian seriously pissed you off or kicked you in the nuts or shot your puppy. there are good things in religion in general, not just christianity.

I agree with you completely.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
our room is slightly bigger.

not to mention that a life without free will is hardly a life at all.

not to mention that all evil in this world is created by humanity😀

….not to mention that a life without free will is hardly a life at all.
..…

Arr yes but why not give as “free will” so that we can choose to do whatever we like but with just one small constraint: don't allowed as to choose to deliberately harm others?
It is THIS that I don’t understand. -after all, it would hardly be a significant restriction on “free will”; honestly, what proportion of the decisions you make in your life consist of deciding to deliberately harm others? -surely the answer is not much if any. I certainly haven't made any decision to deliberately harm another as an adult and only extremely rarely as a child ( I once had a fight with my brother ) so if I was made incapable of deliberately harm others it wouldn’t really change me nor give me reason to complain nor would I mind.
Even a relatively “evil” person may not literally have most of his decisions consist of deliberately harm others in his every day life. So surely it would be an extremely small dent in our “free will” if we where simply incapable of deciding to deliberately harm others providing there was no other constraints and yet the benefits would be huge and obvious.

So this would beg the question: if “God“ is “all good“ then why didn’t he give as a “conditional free will“ that makes us incapable of deliberately harm others?
-I mean, apart from the fact that this would make our lives vastly more pleasant, no need for “God” to brutally punish those that do deliberately harm others ( because there would be no such evil people to punish ).


….not to mention that all evil in this world is created by humanity
..…

Not sure how that helps to makes the Christian God “good” by SELECTIVELY allowing evil in humans.

Can’t a monkey commit an act of evil? -just curious to know what the Christian religion has to say about that.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
all that have not accepted jesus in their hearts will burn for an eternity in hell

Z,

There is no such teaching in the Bible about "accepting Jesus into your heart." (Christian explaination of) Eternal life depends on one thing, that is God's mercy, expressed through the life and sacrifice of Jesus. New life is spiritual = spiritual rebirth = new creation.

Bucky,
Because Christ paid the price, this salvation is completely free to anyone and dependent only on placing faith in the promises of God as written in his word. The evidence of such a thing (if required) is a changed attitude to god, resulting in what the bible calls the fruit of the spirit (love, joy, peace, longsuffering, etc). I see nothing in that that a prospective enquirer would be upset by.

Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton
[b]….not to mention that a life without free will is hardly a life at all.
..…

Arr yes but why not give as “free will” so that we can choose to do whatever we like but with just one small constraint: don't allowed as to choose to deliberately harm others?
It is THIS that I don’t understand. -after all, it would hardly be a significant rest ...[text shortened]... ommit an act of evil? -just curious to know what the Christian religion has to say about that.[/b]

free will is not something you can restrict because then it is no longer free will. hey, you can do whatever you want, except that. and that and that.
and what do you mean constrain ourselves so we don't do harm to others? mostly everything we do does harm to some and good to others. you need a better condition.

sure you won't complain. if we were all born blind would we have any reason to complain, any way to realize what we are missing?

god is freakin eternal. and he is offering the same thing to us, or so we hope, eternal life being very nice. so you would demand god to make your 70 or so years on earth as painless as possible? where would you want to stop with the demands. you ask god to make it as though nobody would be able to harm others. another would ask that everyone had a car. and another would ask for perfect health in everyone. you are like a person getting a free car and complaining it is a volvo instead of a ferrari.

are you evil for not going in somalia and helping people in desperate need? are you evil for allowing bush to enter into a war with irak? is a parent evil for the murders of his adult son or daughter?
we are all responsible for our actions. god made us free. whatever we choose to do with that free will is entirely up to us. and entirely our merit or responsibility.

if the monkey has consciousness, then it can perform the act of evil. without a moral system in a said society(monkey world), how can one distinguish from right or wrong?

Originally posted by divegeester
Z,

There is no such teaching in the Bible about "accepting Jesus into your heart." (Christian explaination of) Eternal life depends on one thing, that is God's mercy, expressed through the life and sacrifice of Jesus. New life is spiritual = spiritual rebirth = new creation.

Bucky,
Because Christ paid the price, this salvation is completely ...[text shortened]... , longsuffering, etc). I see nothing in that that a prospective enquirer would be upset by.

meh i was just using something the religious fanatics hold dear, "have you been saved? have you found jesus? accept jesus into your heart"

there is though the passage "he who believes in me shall have eternal life". and i think there is something about "behold i am knocking at your door, will you let me in?" or something like that. Which can be interpreted in more ways. does he explicitly demands we utter the words "jesus is the man and the son of god" ? or does he mean we accept jesus into our hearts by living the way he wanted us to live. if the latter is true( and my opinion is that it is) it doesn't matter if you are an atheist pediatrician or a muslim firefighter if you live exemplary lives.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
free will is not something you can restrict because then it is no longer free will. hey, you can do whatever you want, except that. and that and that.
and what do you mean constrain ourselves so we don't do harm to others? mostly everything we do does harm to some and good to others. you need a better condition.

sure you won't complain. if we were all b ...[text shortened]... t a moral system in a said society(monkey world), how can one distinguish from right or wrong?

….free will is not something you can restrict because then it is no longer free will.
..…

Wrong. What if you are “free” to do anything BUT deliberately harm others?
-you still have a vast number of choices and it wouldn’t put a dent in the range of choices that would be worthy of mention.

….hey, you can do whatever you want, except that. and that and that. ..…

No, what I propose is: “hey, you can do whatever you want, except that and only that but that leaves you the option of doing that and that and this and that and that and this and that and that and this also and that ……….on to infinitum”

…and what do you mean constrain ourselves so we don't do harm to others?
.…

That isn’t fully what I said. I said why not constrain humans to do no DELIBERATE harm to others.

…mostly everything we do does harm to some and good to others.
.…

-but not DELIBERATE harm to others.

…you need a better condition. ..…

But that wasn’t the full condition I gave.

….sure you won't complain. if we were all born blind would we have any reason to complain.…

….being blind is harmful, being unable to DELIBERATE harm to others is not only harmless -it actually prevents harm. If I purposely made somebody blind, most people probably wouldn’t describe me as being “good“ but would describe me as “bad“. If I purposely made some people almost inevitably destined to do cruel acts against each other, most people probably would describe me as being “good“ and wouldn’t describe me as “bad“. Why should this attitude be any different towards the actions of a deity?…

…. any way to realize what we are missing? …

Would you miss being able to do DELIBERATE harm to others?
I cannot say I would.

…another would ask that everyone had a car. and another would ask for perfect health in everyone. you are like a person getting a free car and complaining it is a volvo instead of a ferrari.
…

Actually, I don’t want a car. Not sure what this has to do with thinking allowing people to be able to deliberately harm each other as NOT being “good”. Greed for cars or anything else doesn’t come from the desire for people not to deliberately harm each other.

….are you evil for not going in Somalia and helping people in desperate need? …

No -that’s because I am obviously NOT talking here about deliberate INACTIONS that knowingly and purposely harm others but rather just deliberate ACTIONS that knowingly and purposely harm others.
I see the INACTION of letting somebody drown in the river when you could have saved him as cold-hearted but not “evil” but the ACTION of pushing his head below the water to make him drown as “evil”.

…if the monkey has consciousness, then it can perform the act of evil. without a moral system in a said society (monkey world), how can one distinguish from right or wrong?
. …
Although I use the word “evil” when I want to express my very strongly emotional dislike for somebody’s deliberate behaviour I don’t think there is such thing as “moral” nor “immoral“ . thus I don’t think there is any way for US to RATIONALLY distinguish from morally right or morally wrong ( although we may do so IRRATIONALLY ) let alone monkeys!
Does the Bible say anything about non-human animals being capable/incapable of an act of evil? -not making any point here -just curious, that’s all.