Why Is There Belief in the Divinity of Jesus?

Originally posted by Badwater
I don't accept this; it causes enormous problems for me Christologically if I do. It's not necessary for me that Jesus is of virgin birth. To me the whole virgin birth issue completely obfuscates whatever may be deemed important of his ministry and mission.

I figure that an event that isn't covered in two of the four gospels isn't of great importance. Wh ...[text shortened]... lly and it's completely unnecessary, so I don't treat it as a literal account - at all.

well, that suggests a bit of progress. after all, most enthused Christians I've encountered in the USA insist on a lot of literal interpetation of this or that aspect of the New Testament, none of which I can accept any more than I can view the Old Testament literally.

Besides, the most common attribute one observes in the USA about so-called Christians of all colors and stripes is that they sing a lot about what their "savior" had to say, but then they go home and forget about all that -- they've paid their dues and can go back to abusing their neighbors, friends, and family alike with a nice clean conscience -- let the market decide being their watchword, not anything their "savior" might have said.

Originally posted by jaywill
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Honestly,, I have no idea what you are talking about.

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There is a spiritual dimension to human life. A long time ago I did not regard anything as real except what I could sense with my five physical senses. Perhaps the psychological world also was real to ...[text shortened]... by abiding in Him as a realm and sphere of moment by moment living.[/b]

Well, I'm so relieved that all the research has been done for me and I can just rely on you for the truth about life, the universe, and everything. Thanks for saving me so much time.

And I make out the check to ...?

Originally posted by jaywill
Why are you so deceived about the power and Person of Jesus the Son of God ?

The experience of salvation is not for a special elite. The intimate knowledge and fellowship with Christ is opened to all who will repent and be forgiven of thier sins, and who would receive Christ into their heart.

Whether I am deceived or not about the power or lack thereof regarding Jesus is not material to
your bizarre claims that 1) You met Jesus; and 2) This meeting was 'more real' than I am.

Either you are using non-standard terms of 'met' and 'real' or you are delusional.

Nemesio

Originally posted by ahosyney
Please can you highlight the parts of these verses that show the divinity of Jesus!!! Becuase I couldn't see them..

I was not posting these verses to show the divinity of Jesus, I ws posting them to show why I believe in the divinity of jesus, which was the question in the first place.

Originally posted by pritybetta
I was not posting these verses to show the divinity of Jesus, I ws posting them to show why I believe in the divinity of jesus, which was the question in the first place.

Yes, that is what I'm asking about, what in these verses make you believe in the divinity of Jesus.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Yes, that is what I'm asking about, what in these verses make you believe in the divinity of Jesus.

The Lord revealing it to me, oppening up my understanding. Apparently you do not understand that, therefore, you will not understand what it is I am trying to say either.

Originally posted by pritybetta
The Lord revealing it to me, oppening up my understanding. Apparently you do not understand that, therefore, you will not understand what it is I am trying to say either.

I will understand what Jesus said, and he never talked about that divinity of himself, and he is always talking to the father as his GOD. So can you tell me how can he have any divinity while he himself has a GOD. Why do you worship him and not worship his GOD?

Originally posted by ahosyney
I will understand what Jesus said, and he never talked about that divinity of himself, and he is always talking to the father as his GOD. So can you tell me how can he have any divinity while he himself has a GOD. Why do you worship him and not worship his GOD?

The OT talks about Christ coming and a human and eveything it says that will happen when the Christ does come happened when Jesus was born and throught his life.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Christ does say he and his father are one.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

Originally posted by pritybetta
The OT talks about Christ coming and a human and eveything it says that will happen when the Christ does come happened when Jesus was born and throught his life.

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and s ...[text shortened]... in heaven.

Christ does say he and his father are one.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

The OT talks about Christ coming and a human and eveything it says that will happen when the Christ does come happened when Jesus was born and throught his life.

Even if they realy talks about Christ, and it did happen, does the OT say anything about a divine human?. I don't think so!!!

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

These verses say nothing about a divine nature of Jesus, unless you mean being the son of GOD. If you read what Jesus said, you will understand that he doesn't mean what you understand, because he was a Jew and all Jews believed that they are the sons of GOD.

I think you know this verse:

(king James Version)(John)(Jn-43-41)(Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.)

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Usually the son of GOD means that he was a righteous person. And Jesus didn't more than that.

Read the following:

(KJV)(Luke)(Lk-23-47)(Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man.)

and look at the same situation here:

(king James Version)(Matthew)(Mt-40-54)(Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.)

Now you see that it was a commen expression to use the son of GOD to mean a righteous man.

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Christ does say he and his father are one.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

You simply took this verse out of context. If you read before this verse you will understand what did he mean by this. He was talking about a specific thing,

(king James Version)(John)(Jn-43-27)(My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: )

(king James Version)(John)(Jn-43-28)(And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.)

(king James Version)(John)(Jn-43-29)(My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.)

(king James Version)(John)(Jn-43-30)(I and my Father are one.)

I think it is very clear that he was talking about his sheeps, and he like his father only in this point. That no one can take his sheeps from him, not in general as you understand.

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I think I do understand Jesus more than you do!!!

Don't put your faith between you and your Bible, let the Bible prove your faith, otherwise you will missread everything...

Originally posted by stepnkev
I believe faith comes through a personal testimony.

It can, but not always. I was saved at a young age--before I even started school, so I don't have a testimony of crawling from the bottom of a bottle, or escaping a life of crime or any of that. I don't even know the exact date I was saved (actually, I can--it was about 2000 years ago, but that's a different perspective).

Originally posted by ahosyney
I will understand what Jesus said, and he never talked about that divinity of himself, and he is always talking to the father as his GOD. So can you tell me how can he have any divinity while he himself has a GOD. Why do you worship him and not worship his GOD?

Jesus said "I and the Father are One." and "He who has seen me has seen the Father." When asked if He was the Son of God, He answered in the affirmative. Can one get more divine than that?

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
Jesus said "I and the Father are One." and "He who has seen me has seen the Father." When asked if He was the Son of God, He answered in the affirmative. Can one get more divine than that?

I and the Father are one. If you have seen I, you have seen the Father.

If I have seen you (the I that is you), I have seen the Father.

I am not being shallow or facetious. Do you understand what I am saying?

Originally posted by vistesd
I and the Father are one. If you have seen I, you have seen the Father.

If I have seen you (the I that is you), I have seen the Father.

I am not being shallow or facetious. Do you understand what I am saying?

sorry---I don't follow. I can be slow sometimes 🙂

Originally posted by Nemesio
Whether I am deceived or not about the power or lack thereof regarding Jesus is not material to
your bizarre claims that 1) You met Jesus; and 2) This meeting was 'more real' than I am.

Either you are using non-standard terms of 'met' and 'real' or you are delusional.

Nemesio

He is using the less common usages, but I suspect that they are within the dictionary meanings - especially if not taken too literally.
However, one must keep in mind that some theists forget to take off their decoder ring, and as a result whatever they say comes out in code. Other theists listening in often like that practice as it allows them to fell like they are hearing something really deep - even though they really have no clue what is being said.

I find it amazing how often in these forums one theist will congratulate another theist for saying something that to you and I seems totally nonsensical or delusional.

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
sorry---I don't follow. I can be slow sometimes 🙂

This might be unfair, but—

Take it slow. (You’re not slow!) Consider “I am that I am” and YHVH as simply the third-person variant of eheyeh (“I-am” ) and Jesus “I-am” statements (especially in John).

Consider the possibility (not outside the scope of Lutheran theology, I think) that Jesus’ claims are unique, but not exclusive. As a hint, I give the following by St. Gregory of Nyssa:


“That God should have clothed himself in our nature is a fact that should not seem strange or extravagant to minds that do not form too paltry an idea of reality...that God is all in all; that he clothes himself with the universe, and at the same time contains it and dwells in it.

“If then all is in him and he is in all, why blush for the faith that teaches us that one day God was born in the human condition, God who still today exists in humanity?

“Indeed, if the presence of God in us does not take the same form now as it did then, we can at least agree in recognizing that he is in us today no less than he was then.”

—St. Gregory of Nyssa (my bold)

Are you, or are you not, an incarnation of the divine “I-am”? Luther used the phrase (which I dislike) “little Christs”. Are you or aren’t you? Who do you think you are?

Take your time. These are not “debate” questions.