1. Standard memberScriabin
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    06 Jul '08 16:00
    Why do people accept, without evidence, as fact that a human being called Jesus was conceived by the union of the deity of monotheism and a virgin human woman?

    How is this different from the story of Hercules? What if the name of God was Zeus or Jupiter?

    In other words, defining reality in terms of faith, any faith, simply baffles me.
  2. SEMO
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    06 Jul '08 17:00
    Originally posted by Scriabin
    Why do people accept, without evidence, as fact that a human being called Jesus was conceived by the union of the deity of monotheism and a virgin human woman?

    How is this different from the story of Hercules? What if the name of God was Zeus or Jupiter?

    In other words, defining reality in terms of faith, any faith, simply baffles me.
    Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
    Mat 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
    Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
    Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
    Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.


    We believe because the Lord revealed it to us to be true.

    Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:
    Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

    We do not need to see a sign to have hope in the Lord.

    Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
  3. weedhopper
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    06 Jul '08 17:01
    Since the answer to your question IS "Faith", it's no surprise you don't understand it.
  4. Joined
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    06 Jul '08 17:50
    Originally posted by PinkFloyd
    Since the answer to your question IS "Faith", it's no surprise you don't understand it.
    Where does the faith come from though? A reading of the Bible? A divine light? Upbringing?
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    06 Jul '08 19:092 edits
    =======================================
    In other words, defining reality in terms of faith, any faith, simply baffles me.
    ========================================


    When you think about it, in this life you eventually have to put your trust in someone.

    You trust your parents that they are your mother and father? Now you really don't KNOW that. You trust them on that. Right?

    Did you have a DNA analysis done to verify personally for yourself that they ARE actually your parents? How do you know that the birth certificate is telling the truth? How do you know that the nurses and doctors did not arrange an elaborate hoax?

    You really don't know that they are your parents. Probably you trust them that they have told you the truth. This is a kind of faith.

    You trust Einstien on Relativity or Darwin on Evolution or Galaleo or Newton on thier discoveries and the calculations. You didn't do the work yourself I bet. I bet for the most part you trust the word of others.

    We all have to trust someone/s.

    Some of us trust what Jesus taught. He acted like God. And I can catagorically admit that God never was real to me until the day I called on the Lord Jesus to take me. Up until that time "God" was only a philosophical musing or debate.

    God became real to me as my heavenly Father on the day I talked to Jesus, really believing that He was alive.

    I met Jesus. I never met Hercules or Zues.
  6. SEMO
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    06 Jul '08 19:30
    Originally posted by HumeA
    Where does the faith come from though? A reading of the Bible? A divine light? Upbringing?
    Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
    Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
    Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
    Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

    Faith comes from the Lord and you have to be under the hearing of his word. Eph 2:8 tells us that faith is a gift given by God because he had grace on us. Therefore faith is a gift.

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
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    06 Jul '08 20:47
    Originally posted by jaywill
    I met Jesus. I never met Hercules or Zues.

    Are you sure? Zeus often took the form of an animal... you may just not have been receptive to his bull-form attempts to enlighten you...

    Originally posted by pritybetta
    Faith comes from the Lord and you have to be under the hearing of his word. Eph 2:8 tells us that faith is a gift given by God because he had grace on us. Therefore faith is a gift.

    So if the Bible is the thing from which you gain your faith in God and Jesus, from where do you get your faith in the Bible? (I am not intending to be rude here, I am just curious as I don't think I really understand.)
  8. SEMO
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    06 Jul '08 23:11
    Originally posted by HumeA
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]I met Jesus. I never met Hercules or Zues.


    Are you sure? Zeus often took the form of an animal... you may just not have been receptive to his bull-form attempts to enlighten you...

    Originally posted by pritybetta
    Faith comes from the Lord and you have to be under the hearing of his word. Eph 2:8 tell ...[text shortened]... ? (I am not intending to be rude here, I am just curious as I don't think I really understand.)
    I gain my faith in the Lord throgh Him. The Bible is his Word, therefore, the faith I have is from the Lord. Same as if someone was to write you a letter. What you read is from that person, therefore, the letter is their word to you. You gain knoweldge of what that person is wanting you to know through the letter. I gain faith through the Word of the Lord from the Lord.

    BTW, I don't think you are being rude, I enjoy discussing the Word to those who are trying to understand. I just hope I am explaining it so that you can understand. 😵
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    06 Jul '08 23:24
    Originally posted by pritybetta
    Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
    Rom 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of go ...[text shortened]... at not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    Please can you highlight the parts of these verses that show the divinity of Jesus!!! Becuase I couldn't see them..
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    06 Jul '08 23:421 edit
    Originally posted by HumeA
    Originally posted by jaywill
    [b]I met Jesus. I never met Hercules or Zues.


    Are you sure? Zeus often took the form of an animal... you may just not have been receptive to his bull-form attempts to enlighten you...

    Originally posted by pritybetta
    Faith comes from the Lord and you have to be under the hearing of his word. Eph 2:8 tell ...[text shortened]... ? (I am not intending to be rude here, I am just curious as I don't think I really understand.)
    HumeA,

    =============================

    Are you sure? Zeus often took the form of an animal... you may just not have been receptive to his bull-form attempts to enlighten you...

    ===============================



    Do you live on the planet Earth?

    Are you sure? I mean in the movie Forbidden Planet the planet Altair Four had a sky with a sun in it too.


    Do you really know anything about Zues? Are you sure? Popeye the Sailor Man was also strong too you know.


    And what do you know about Hercules? Was that Greek Mythology? Are you sure? The wrestler Andrea the Giant had big muscles too.

    Can't be too sure of things you know?
  11. Joined
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    07 Jul '08 00:11
    Scriabin,

    ======================================

    Why do people accept, without evidence,

    =====================================


    We have a lot of evidence. We have the evdence of history. We have the evidence of the faithful Scriptures. And we have the evidence of our experience of Christ.

    If we do not have totally conclusive evidence we certainly have a great deal of confirming evidence. In other words our faith is not "blind faith" in the sense of a brute effort of the will power just to believe.

    You see, we find that Jesus Christ is BELIEVABLE. I find Jesus to be a most BELIEVABLE Person. I think I find Jesus more believable than you.

    So we have evidence from not one source but a few sources. What puzzles me is why people can come up with questions like this which imply that they never have bothered to carefully read the New Testament.

    I mean did you READ chapters 14 thorugh 16 of the Gospel of John when Jesus addressed the probing questions of the disciples as to HOW they would know Him to be real when the WORLD could not see Him?

    Did you read what Jesus taught about that in John chapter 14?

    Did you read the personal testimonials of Paul ? Second Corinthians is practically a short autobiagraphy of the man Paul who wrote 13 of the NT books.

    You see when we who have met Jesus read MANY things in theNew Testament we can totally identify with them. We can read the words of John and of Peter and of Paul and of James and recognize the experiences that they are speaking of. We can say "I know that experience. I know what this man is talking about. This man is writing about what has happened to ME also."

    So we have a great deal of confirming evidence that we are on the right track to believe in the resurrection of Jesus the Son of God.

    And you too can have that same kind of confirming experience if you open up to receive Jesus.

    "But as many as RECEIVED Him, (my emphasis) to them He gave the authority to become children of God, to those who believe into His name, who were begotten ... of God." (See John 1:12,13)

    When we RECEIVED Jesus we realize that many profound things occured in our lives that match the utterances and teachings of the apostles.

    We realize that Jesus has indeed come to us in a form in which He can be REDCEIVED into our innermost spiritual being. So when we read 1 Cor. 15:45 it corresponds with our experiene confirming that we are on the right track.


    First Cor. 15:45 says "The last Adam became a life giving Spirit"

    This means Christ, in resurrection became in a form in which He could impart the divine life of Himself into His believers who receive Him.

    So the questions you ask now are by no means new questions. Even th first century Christians had the same questions towards them and the very same confirming evidence also. For example Paul writing to the Corinthians asking them to realize that Christ lived in them:

    "TEST YOURSELVES WHETHER YOU ARE IN THE FAITH; PROVE YOURSELVES. OR DO YOU NOT REALIZE ABOUT YOURSELVES THAT JESUS CHRIST IS IN YOU, UNLESS YOU ARE DISAPPROVED? " (2 Cor. 13:5) (my emphasis)

    The Christians in Corinth realized by testing that Jesus CHrist was in them. He was imparted into them in a form in which the Son of God can live within man - He became "a life giving Spirit".

    Today we also who know Jesus Christ have received the "life giving Spirit".

    To give life here means to give not only the knowledge of God intimately but to give God to us as life. The man Jesus, the resurrected Man Jesus is the embodiment of this divine life.


    Not only is Zues and Hercules only mythology there is NO teaching that they will come to live in their believers. The comparison is not valid at all.
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    07 Jul '08 01:101 edit
    Originally posted by Scriabin
    Why do people accept, without evidence, as fact that a human being called Jesus was conceived by the union of the deity of monotheism and a virgin human woman?

    How is this different from the story of Hercules? What if the name of God was Zeus or Jupiter?

    In other words, defining reality in terms of faith, any faith, simply baffles me.
    [/b]
    Why do people accept, without evidence, as fact that a human being called Jesus was conceived by the union of the deity of monotheism and a virgin human woman?

    Who accepts that?
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    07 Jul '08 01:19
    I saw a scripture once that said "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things unseen" and I once heard a man say, "Faith is the currency of heaven"
  14. weedhopper
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    07 Jul '08 01:20
    Originally posted by HumeA
    Where does the faith come from though? A reading of the Bible? A divine light? Upbringing?
    In my case, I'd say all 3.
  15. Joined
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    07 Jul '08 01:443 edits
    Faith in Christ is something like radiation. Once you have it you feel that it did not come out of yourself but from another source.

    It amazes me sometimes that I actually believe in Christ.

    Sometimes after hearing the eloquent arguments of skeptics and agnostics I say to myself - "It is amazing that I actually do believe the Bible." And I thank God for His mercy upon me!

    To be in unbelief of the Bible and of Christ is like being lost in an inescapable labyrinth, a sad maze of vain reasoning.

    Those of us who know the reality of Christ must pray for God's mercy upon those who do not yet believe. Does anyone believe in Christ without someone praying for him or her ? I wonder sometimes.
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