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For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8-10
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Romans 10:4 ESV
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
1 Corinthians 13:1-3
Charity without love is nothing. No body has true love out of themselves. We can only love when Christ indwells us by His Spirit. He gives His Spirit freely to those who truly believe in Him and trust Him.
Nobody born of God's Spirit will want to sin.
If we are not born of God's Spirit the best we can come up with is hypocritical righteousness which is like filthy rags.
If we strive in the flesh not to sin sin will have extra power. Romans 7
The law and living under law gives power to sin. It can not and will not bring about righteous living. Those who are under the law are under a curse. (Galations)
Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Galatians 2:16 ESV
As it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." "Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive." "The venom of asps is under their lips." "Their mouth is full of curses and bitterness." "Their feet are swift to shed blood; in their paths are ruin and misery, and the way of peace they have not known." "There is no fear of God before their eyes." Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it— the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Romans 3:10-24 ESV
@dj2becker saidYou appear to be arguing with yourself. Here is what the bible preaches:
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Ephesians 2:8-10
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believ ...[text shortened]... tified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
Romans 3:10-24 ESV
- Nobody can save themselves because a sacrifice for the sins of mankind was required and nobody was righteous enough to qualify.
- All people are saved by Gods grace in that he sent his son Jesus to die for the sins of the world
- All people who keep His commandments are rewarded by Jesus with eternal life.
Therefore Jesus saves, Jesus rewards with eternal life those who keep the commandments. There is therefore work to be done, and a righteous life to be lived in order to get eternal life. It is not handed out to mouth worshipers who profess faith only, as Jesus states clearly. Jesus said it is only a fool who ignores his commandments. Paul said that you have to live righteously to save yourself as well as others. Failure means there is no inheritance in the Kingdom of God.
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. (1 Timothy 4:16 KJV)
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You appear to be arguing with yourself. Here is what the bible preaches:
- Nobody can save themselves because a sacrifice for the sins of mankind was required and nobody was righteous enough to qualify.
- All people are saved by Gods grace in that he sent his son Jesus to die for the sins of the world
- All people who keep His commandments are rewarded by Jesus with eternal life.
So then as a pseudo universalists of some type this statement would be FALSE in your teaching -
"For by grace you have been saved through faith ..." (Eph. 2:8a)
Ie.
You would say INSTEAD that it is not that you were "saved through faith."
You would say "By grace you have been saved ..." but through NOTHING else. Faith had nothing to do with it. If you had faith you got saved. If you had no faith you still got saved.
You would say that "By grace you have been saved ... THROUGH NOTHING. Faith was irrelevant one way or the other."
This is exactly like saying By grace you were born. Nothing else out of you, from you, coming because of you had ANYTHING to do with it. God caused millions to be born simply by something ... His grace."
Essentially, you are committed to eliminating the need of FAITH from the Christian life.
I do not expect you to cogently rebut this. I expect you to speak of Satan and hurl insults behind you, maybe mention "cults" or "Witness Lee".
I do not expect you to refute my analysis of your points.
Surprise us for a change.
Therefore Jesus saves,
For you teach, whether you have faith or not Jesus saves in lieu of the fact that all the world has been saved by Jesus.
- All people are saved by Gods grace in that he sent his son Jesus to die for the sins of the world
This is your subtle distortion of the NT.
Ie. All people are saved by grace BUT NOT THROUGH FAITH.
So Ephesians 2:8 contains unnecessary words which are teaching the WRONG thing -
Mainly -"For by grace you have been saved THROUGH FAITH ..."
Your teaching eliminates "faith" as an instrument THROUGH WHICH people are saved.
Going on ...
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Jesus rewards with eternal life those who keep the commandments.
So your teaching DISCARDS faith and also teaches there is a being SAVED that exists WITHOUT having "eternal life".
So for you John 3:16 would be incorrect. For it says -
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that everyone that believes into Him would not perish, but would have eternal life."
This is wrong in your teaching because some may not perish but STILL will not have eternal life. So you teach the "saved" ones who will not perish -
1.) Were not saved through faith or through believing into God's Son.
2.) Are still without eternal life which they still await to have or be deprived of.
The words of Jesus correlates "would not perish" to "have eternal life".
Your interpretation correlates "would not perish" with may or may not have eternal life .
So Christ's words - "should not perish but have eternal life" have been twisted by you to mean "should not perish AND also may not have eternal life. It DEPENDS."
A cogent rebuttal from you would surprise me. I expect only brute force insults, mentioning of Satan, cults, etc. ... but no corrective logic.
There is therefore work to be done, and a righteous life to be lived in order to get eternal life.
In the past I thought your "gospel" was of FAITH PLUS WORKS to obtain eternal life. It is becoming clearer to me that I underestimated your opposition to faith.
You actually are teaching DISCARD FAITH, for there is no "through faith"
So you it is not FAITH PLUS WORKS to obtain eternal life but WORKS NEED TO BE DONE to obtain eternal life. The whole matter of faith and believing into the Son of God given by God is irrelevant.
Ie.
1.) The whole world will not perish [saved].
2.) The ones who have no faith and are saved WORK to earn eternal life.
3.) The ones who HAVE faith and are saved also WORK to earn eternal life.
All are saved with or without belief and with or without faith in the Son and those who do the necessary WORK earn eternal life.
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Rajk999 goes on ...
It is not handed out to mouth worshipers who profess faith only, as Jesus states clearly.
You come to be the authority to decide who has done the WORK to earn eternal life. And their believing or not believing in Christ makes no difference.
So it is with you "By grace you have been saved. And I will decide if you have done the necessary work so as to have obtained the wages FOR that work being eternal life from Jesus."
Jesus said it is only a fool who ignores his commandments. Paul said that you have to live righteously to save yourself as well as others. Failure means there is no inheritance in the Kingdom of God.
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. (1 Timothy 4:16 KJV)
So you think you can locate every instance of the word "saved" in the Bible and equate it to have eternal life.
So "she shall be saved through childbearing" (1 Tim. 2:15) along with 1 Tim. 4:16 you teach to mean eternal life through works. And in the case of 1 Tim 2:15 only by having babies and raising them (for women).
In the case of 1 Tim. 4:16 Christians can obtain through the earning of wages for WORK not only for themselves eternal life but also for others eternal life.
And if you are concerned about the foolishness of ignoring Paul's exhortations and commands then why do you ignore his word that it is "by grace through faith" men are saved?
You reject Paul's exhortation by contradicting him ...
- All people are saved by Gods grace in that he sent his son Jesus to die for the sins of the world
And that whether they have faith in Christ or not. And that whether they believe into the Son of God or not.
@divegeester saidI guess you think your comment constitutes a contribution to the points made in the OP.
@dj2becker
I guess you have answered your own question.
Apparently you know so little about the gospel you're unable to support the biblical truths made in the OP with scriptural evidence of your own.
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The question of the OP is "Why we can't save ourselves?"
Since the word "save" is used so much in the Bible to be careful we should inquire in what sense "save ourselves" is mentioned here.
Though we could find verses on "save" ourselves in a sense here and there, this is what I think the OP means.
Ephesians 2:8 says -
"For by grace you have been SAVED through faith, and this is not of yourselves; it is the gift of God; Not of works that no one should boast."
Being saved - was carried out by God. It did not originate from man. The SAVER was God. If He does not do it, it will not be done.
Now "and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God" could conceivably be applied to faith or saved. Either way, We cannot save ourselves.
Either:
1.) The SALVATION is a gift of God and not of ourselves.
OR
2.) The FAITH through which we are saved is a gift of God and not of ourselves.
Though I tend to lean towards the understanding of #2, I think the effect is the same. If God gave not as GIFT of "saved" there would be no salvation. Or if God gave not as GIFT the FAITH through which we are saved, there would be no salvation.
@rajk999 said",..Jesus rewards with eternal life..."
You appear to be arguing with yourself. Here is what the bible preaches:
- Nobody can save themselves because a sacrifice for the sins of mankind was required and nobody was righteous enough to qualify.
- All people are saved by Gods grace in that he sent his son Jesus to die for the sins of the world
- All people who keep His commandments are rewarded by Jesus with etern ...[text shortened]... in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. (1 Timothy 4:16 KJV)[/i]
That is where your argument falls apart. Eternal life is a free gift of God's grace, given undeservedly to those who through faith believe in Jesus. Eternal life is not a reward.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Even the "faith" is a gift.
1 John 5:11
And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
"Given", not earned.
@secondson saidThanks but I will take it the way Jesus said it in Matt 25 about the loving and charitable and giving ones getting eternal life, and the way Paul and the Apostles said it about eternal salvation s for those who are OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS.
",..Jesus rewards with eternal life..."
That is where your argument falls apart. Eternal life is a free gift of God's grace, given undeservedly to those who through faith believe in Jesus. Eternal life is not a reward.
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Even the "faith" is a gift.
1 J ...[text shortened]... od hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
"Given", not earned.
Something is missing from your doctrine. I agree that people are saved by the grace of God. The word saved used there means saved from the curse of the sin of Adam which fell on all of mankind. That is what the Grace of God means. Nobody deserved the sacrifice of Christ. Nobody was righteous enough to save themselves. Jesus SAVED man from sin and death. But mankind does not get eternal life UNLESS he obeys the commandments of Christ. You can argue all you like but Jesus and the Apostles said there is no eternal life without living righteously and obeying the commandments.
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke
The salvation shown in the Bible is exceedingly extensive and practical.
Salvation in the Bible includes the spirit, the heart, the soul, the mind, the will, the emotion, the physical body, the saved individual, the mankind as a collective, as a society, as inhabitants of the earth, the earth, the environment, the planet, the entire CREATION.
The entire kit-and-caboodle is the recipient of salvation. That is an extensive universal salvation ... not including though those who reject the Savior God.
On the expression "kit-and-caboodle".
The whole kit and caboodle means the entire amount of things or the entire group of people being discussed. The word kit in the phrase the whole kit and caboodle is a reference to a soldier's kit, which is the collection of supplies and personal items that a soldier carries with him.
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Rajk999,
When was the last time you said to the Lord Jesus ... "Lord Jesus, I love You." ?
Ask yourself if you don't want to make a public confession.
When, WHEN was the last time you said anything like ?
"Lord Jesus, I just LOVE You. I love You not for what You give or do. Lord, I just love You for being You. I love You Lord just for Who you ARE."
@sonship said"kit-and-caboodle"
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
The salvation shown in the Bible is exceedingly extensive and practical.
Salvation in the Bible includes the spirit, the heart, the soul, the mind, the will, the emotion, the physical body, the saved individual, the mankind as a collective, as a society, as inhabitants of the earth, the earth, the environment, the planet, the entire CREATION.
The ...[text shortened]... kit, which is the collection of supplies and personal items that a soldier carries with him.[/quote]
ROFL, good one.
Our salvation is a gift of God, it isn't earned by us in any way shape or form. It is by God's grace through faith and even that is by God. If it were by human effort it would be by works and our merit, this would mean that God is obligated to us for what we have done, that is never going to be case.
The scriptures deny that it is by works we are saved, but not that we will be doing them. They are not in contradiction about that, our faith in Christ itself is a gift of God, and with God's Spirit we are being led to the works of God as He sanctifies us as He redeems us.
To dispute this suggests that our salvation is due to our merit and earned and salvation of God is only to the worthy of us who earned it, instead of what the scripture teaches that while we were yet sinners Christ came and died for us. Had Jesus not done that no one would be acceptable, for all have sinned and fallen short of the righteousness of God.
Romans 5:8-10 English Standard Version (ESV)
but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
@sonship saidI think I told you before that this is a discussion forum. You make a point and you provide a supporting reference if necessary. It is not a Sunday School where you get to ask stupid questions.
Rajk999,
When was the last time you said to the Lord Jesus ... "Lord Jesus, I love You." ?
Ask yourself if you don't want to make a public confession.
When, WHEN was the last time you said anything like ?
"Lord Jesus, I just LOVE You. I love You not for what You give or do. Lord, I just love You for being You. I love You Lord just for Who you ARE."