1. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    24 May '13 18:142 edits
    American Standard Version (ASV)

    "For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15 (American Standard Version)

    "Clarke's Commentary on Hebrews 4:15 (Without - Outside) For we have not a high priest - To the objection, "Your High Priest, if entered into the heavens, can have no participation with you, and no sympathy for you, because out of the reach of human feelings and infirmities. We have not a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weakness. Though he be the Son of God, as to his human nature, and equal in his Divine nature with God; yet, having partaken of human nature, and having submitted to all its trials and distresses, and being in all points tempted like as we are, without feeling or consenting to sin; he is able to succor them that are tempted. See Hebrews 2:18, and the note there.

    The words might be translated, in all points according to the likeness, i.e. as far as his human nature could bear affinity to ours; for, though he had a perfect human body and human soul, yet that body was perfectly tempered; it was free from all morbid action, and consequently from all irregular movements. His mind, or human soul, being free from all sin, being every way perfect, could feel no irregular temper, nothing that was inconsistent with infinite purity. In all these respects he was different from us; and cannot, as man, sympathize with us in any feelings of this kind: but, as God, he has provided support for the body under all its trials and infirmities, and for the soul he has provided an atonement and purifying sacrifice; so that he cleanses the heart from all unrighteousness, and fills the soul with his Holy Spirit, and makes it his own temple and continual habitation. He took our flesh and blood, a human body and a human soul, and lived a human life. Here was the likeness of sinful flesh, Romans 8:5; and by thus assuming human nature, he was completely qualified to make an atonement for the sins of the world."

    "Barnes' Notes on Hebrews 4:15 "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched - Our High Priest is not cold and unfeeling. That is, we have one who is abundantly qualified to sympathize with us in our afflictions, and to whom, therefore, we may look for aid and support in trials. Had we a high priest who was cold and heartless; who simply performed the external duties of his office without entering into the sympathies of those who came to seek for pardon; who had never experienced any trials, and who felt himself above those who sought his aid, we should necessarily feel disheartened in attempting to overcome our sins, and to live to God. His coldness would repel us; his stateliness would awe us; his distance and reserve would keep us away, and perhaps render us indifferent to all desire to be saved. But tenderness and sympathy attract those who are feeble, and kindness does more than anything else to encourage those who have to encounter difficulties and dangers; see the notes at Hebrews 2:16-18. Such tenderness and sympathy has our Great High Priest.

    But was in all points tempted like as we are - "Tried" as we are; see the notes at Hebrews 2:18. He was subjected to all the kinds of trial to which we can be, and he is, therefore, able to sympathize with us and to aid us. He was tempted - in the literal sense; he was persecuted; he was poor; he was despised; he suffered physical pain; he endured the sorrows of a lingering and most cruel death.

    Yet without sin - 1 Peter 2:22. "Who did no sin;" Isaiah 53:9, "He had done no violence, neither was there any deceit in his mouth;" Hebrews 7:26, "Who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners." The importance of this fact - that the Great High Priest of the Christian profession was "without sin," the apostle illustrates at length in Hebrews 7-9. He here merely alludes to it, and says that one who was "without sin" was able to assist those who were sinners, and who put their trust in him."

    "Wesley's Notes on Hebrews 4:15 He sympathizes with us even in our innocent infirmities, wants, weaknesses, miseries, dangers. Yet without sin - And, therefore, is indisputably able to preserve us from it in all our temptations."
    (http://www.godvine.com/bible/hebrews/4-15)

    Question: Why would any intelligent human being of sound mind be willing to accept these mind boggling claims? (gb)
  2. Standard memberRJHinds
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    24 May '13 18:35
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    American Standard Version (ASV)

    "For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15 (American Standard Version)

    [b]"Clarke's Commentary on Hebrews 4:15 (Without - Outside)
    For we have not a high priest - To the obj ...[text shortened]... ing of sound mind be willing to accept these mind boggling claims? (gb)[/b]
    That is a $64,000 question.

    The Instructor
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    24 May '13 20:56
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    American Standard Version (ASV)

    "For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15 (American Standard Version)

    [b]"Clarke's Commentary on Hebrews 4:15 (Without - Outside)
    For we have not a high priest - To the obj ...[text shortened]... ing of sound mind be willing to accept these mind boggling claims? (gb)[/b]
    Err they wouldn't?
  4. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    25 May '13 02:35
    Originally posted by kevcvs57

    Err they wouldn't?
    What claims from someone else do you think these people would accept?
  5. Standard membersonship
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    25 May '13 11:571 edit
    Question: Why would any intelligent human being of sound mind be willing to accept these mind boggling claims?

    Thankyou for your study notes there. They were very good.

    I guess I don't understand what your question is all about.
    We believers believe in Christ the Great High Priest because God has opened our spiritual eyes to see the revelation of the truth.
  6. SubscriberSuzianne
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    25 May '13 12:03
    Originally posted by sonship
    Question: Why would any intelligent human being of sound mind be willing to accept these mind boggling claims?

    Thankyou for your study notes there. They were very good.

    I guess I don't understand what your question is all about.
    We believers believe in Christ the Great High Priest because God has opened our spiritual eyes to see the revelation of the truth.
    ^This.
  7. Standard membersonship
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    25 May '13 12:373 edits
    It seems like a curious ad hom. But when we have some experience with Jesus soon after being regenerated we realize that He looks beyond our faults and sees our needs.

    Maybe the question is how can we believe that one man could perform such a ministry to millions of people with great multiple instances of simultaneous sympathy.

    This seems too miraculous that a man could be such a high priest ministering to millions of people simultaneously. That is very unusual. But I don't know if that is what GB is getting at or something else.
  8. SubscriberSuzianne
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    25 May '13 12:59
    Originally posted by sonship
    It seems like a curious ad hom. But when we have some experience with Jesus soon after being regenerated we realize that He looks beyond our faults and sees our needs.

    Maybe the question is how can we believe that one man could perform such a ministry to millions of people with great multiple instances of simultaneous sympathy.

    This seems too miracu ...[text shortened]... sly. That is very unusual. But I don't know if that is what GB is getting at or something else.
    I'm pretty sure he just wants to stimulate discussion or opinions, pro or con.

    My contribution is that it's not so 'mind-boggling' a claim as he makes it sound.
  9. Standard membersonship
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    25 May '13 13:192 edits
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    I'm pretty sure he just wants to stimulate discussion or opinions, pro or con.

    My contribution is that it's not so 'mind-boggling' a claim as he makes it sound.
    I don't know Suzzianne. The whole matter is an issue concerning the infinite power of God and not the wisdom of man. Maybe he's right.

    Without God's mercy none of us would believe it.

    God has totally stood behind the life of this man Jesus.
    God has totally upheld Him and universalized Him.

    For lack of any better word I will coin a phrase - "Godnized".
    God has taken this man Jesus of Nazareth and "Godnized" Him infusing all of His omnipresent attributes and uplifted the man into universality.

    In essence there is only one biography which makes any difference among all the human beings who have lived on earth. That is the biography of the man Jesus of Nazareth. God has taken this one life and infused it with all the eternal attributes of divinity, fully put His stamp of approval upon, and universalized that one life.

    Not only so. God has a way to distribute that one man's characteristics into millions of open hearted believers.

    God has made Jesus distributable. God has made the man Jesus to be in a universalized state so that His life can be dispensed into millions of lives in a way of mingling.

    "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

    You remember the act Jesus did of feeding thousands of people with a few loaves and a few fish. Christ broke the meager meal and then distributed it to His disciples. They ate and then gathered the crumbs. The crumbs had been miraculously multiplied thousand fold in number. And then that supernatural increase was distributed to the crowd to feed them.

    This was a little picture into God's economy. He took the man Jesus, limited, local, and He made Him to be in a form that He passed on from the twelve apostles into millions of people. He increased. He multiplied. He became a Godnized man to be dispensed into millions over the world.

    Such can be a sympathetic High Priest to men and women around the globe in all their particular situations.

    Yes, it is a miracle that we actually believe this gospel.
  10. Standard memberRemoved
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    25 May '13 13:45
    Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
    American Standard Version (ASV)

    "For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15 (American Standard Version)

    [b]"Clarke's Commentary on Hebrews 4:15 (Without - Outside)
    For we have not a high priest - To the obj ...[text shortened]... ing of sound mind be willing to accept these mind boggling claims? (gb)[/b]
    It is indeed mind boggling.
    Jesus persisted, it tells us in Hebrews, "for the joy that was set before him".
    So we know why he accepted it.
    For us? I don't know why God set his love on us, I suppose it is because of his nature.
    I am just glad he did.
    I do know that Jesus had to be tempted with every thing under the sun to be able to redeem EVERY human if they so choose to receive him.
    This is God's grace, that he gave his perfect son, to redeem a lowly worm like myself.
  11. Standard memberRJHinds
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    25 May '13 21:00
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    It is indeed mind boggling.
    Jesus persisted, it tells us in Hebrews, "for the joy that was set before him".
    So we know why he accepted it.
    For us? I don't know why God set his love on us, I suppose it is because of his nature.
    I am just glad he did.
    I do know that Jesus had to be tempted with every thing under the sun to be able to redeem EVERY ...[text shortened]... him.
    This is God's grace, that he gave his perfect son, to redeem a lowly worm like myself.
    It is more mind boggling (or whatever) to me to imagine how the atheists can believe that the universe and life just happened without being designed by a super intelligent being. That is what I can't understand.

    The Instructor
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    26 May '13 12:12
    Question: Why would any intelligent human being of sound mind be willing to accept these mind boggling claims? (gb)


    It matches the experience of so many.

    These passages from Hebrews may not be among the first a Christian learns. But when a person does encounter the living and available Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit, it is eventually realized how very sympathetic He is.

    Then you read further and discover passages and say "I understand that. I have experienced that. I now know something of what this passage is saying. Before I had no idea what it was saying. Now this makes sense a little. Jesus has shown Himself sympathetic to me yet straight, pure, righteous, not letting me off the hook of channeling me into the right thing to do. He has been a merciful and faithful high priest."

    It is because of passing though circumstances and situations with this Jesus that we concur that the utterance of Hebrews matches our experience. And it actually reinforces it with greater eloquence. We have had a little foretaste.
  13. Standard memberGrampy Bobby
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    27 May '13 18:10
    "For we have not a high priest that cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but one that hath been in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15 (American Standard Version)

    >"Why would any intelligent human being of sound mind be willing to accept these mind boggling claims?" (OP)

    All comments embrace my points. Specifically: a) His Omnipotence effortlessly extends the Opportunity of Personal Relationship through Acceptance of His Grace Gift by Faith Alone in Christ Alone; b) Imagine, though, the now Risen Christ's Perfect Humanity and Undiminished Deity in One Unique Person [forever] willing to voluntarily experience all manner of human temptation during thirty three years of life on earth on our behalf. This is mind boggling [to me]. (gb)
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