Originally posted by galveston75You visit this topic often. But you never present any evidence - aside from your own certainty and despair - that the world is as bad as you say it is. Claiming that the Bible's mention of people disagreeing with your interpretation suggests that their disagreement is "evidence" that you are right smacks of something akin to circular logic or clumsy confirmation bias.
The truth from the bible bothers you doesn't it? Why is that?
You once cited a youtube clip of school kids harassing a granny on a bus as evidence that the world has sunk to allegedly new lows. When I didn't accept this as convincing evidence of anything other than 'school kids can be cruel', you brandished the Bible at me in the same way as you are doing now to people who disagree with your pessimism. Do you see what the problem is with your 'testimony'?
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 117006
Originally posted by galveston75You claimed in your OP that we are in the end times because of levels of terrorism. I've shown you some real data proving that levels of terrorism in Europe are way below where they were in 1970 and your best response is to whip out a scripture that calls people "mockers".
The bible speaks very clear for itself. I only show the scriptures to let anyone see for themselves...
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 117006
Originally posted by galveston75OK, let's look at some end time scriptures:
We've discussed this topic before. Some here do not agree that we are now in that time period.
Jesus himself spoke of these signs or events. The one that I see so clearly is this with the issue of terrorism:
Jesus foretold of our time: “On the earth anguish of nations, "not knowing the way out" . . . Men become faint out of fear and expectation o ...[text shortened]... atthew 24:21.
I like this comment by Jesus: .... "not knowing the way out".
Any thoughts?
Luke 21:11 b ESV
"And there will be terrors and great signs from heaven."
Luke 21:25 ESV
“And there will be signs in sun and moon and stars, and on the earth distress of nations in perplexity because of the roaring of the sea and the waves"
Matthew 24:24 ESV
"For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect."
These things have not even begun to come to pass. You cannot just pick some local topical disaster (recent terrorism) wrap a couple of scriptures around it and call it the end times.
Originally posted by galveston75But that's just it, isn't it ~ what does the Bible say "very clear for itself" about the increasingly positive trends in world indicators pertaining to health, education, justice, human rights and various other essential elements of real people's lives which affect ever increasing numbers and proportions of the world's population? No one is saying the world is not without its problems, but you cannot substantiate your doomsday take on its current condition.
The bible speaks very clear for itself. I only show the scriptures to let anyone see for themselves...
You trot out the word string ~ "let anyone see for themselves" ~ but the point is, every time I say I am seeing for myself you tell me to look at the scriptures even though doing so does not address what is being put to you. For you to seek to depict yourself as participating in a genuine "discussion" [about a topic you yourself raised] is highly questionable.
Again the bible says ( not me) that most will not see it or recognize the signs as sad as that is because all that don't are endangering their life's. But that is the way it is and nothing I can do or say will change any of your minds, period. So, until something happens in your hearts and minds that will let you see it, you won't and will continue to argue not against me, but against the bible.
But I see it clearly as well as many others on this earth who are paying attention to Jesus's words on this subject and listening to him.
Originally posted by galveston75But it is you who is claiming that the world is approaching the end times now. So it's surely you who has to argue your case. The Bible does not say that the world is approaching the end times now in 2016. It is you who is saying so.
So, until something happens in your hearts and minds that will let you see it, you won't and will continue to argue not against me, but against the bible.
Originally posted by galveston75You actually seem to be seeking to attribute disagreement with your personal opinions on this issue to satanic influence. Surely not?
Perhaps the reason that the bible says that "most" will not see and understand the signs as they are happening and argue against them is because the bible also says that the devil is the ruler of this world and is misleading many and blinding their eyes?.
Originally posted by galveston75Yes for anyone who as read the account of the destruction of Jerusalem in Josephus 'The war of the Jews', it makes a very interesting parallel to events today. Political factions warring with one another for ascendency, brutal acts of terrorism perpetrated on an innocent populace with really no way out. Many did simply become 'faint out of fear'
We've discussed this topic before. Some here do not agree that we are now in that time period.
Jesus himself spoke of these signs or events. The one that I see so clearly is this with the issue of terrorism:
Jesus foretold of our time: “On the earth anguish of nations, "not knowing the way out" . . . Men become faint out of fear and expectation o ...[text shortened]... atthew 24:21.
I like this comment by Jesus: .... "not knowing the way out".
Any thoughts?
And now, as the city was engaged in a war on all sides, from these treacherous crowds of wicked men, the people of the city, between them, were like a great body torn in pieces. The aged men and the women were in such distress by their internal calamities, that they wished for the Romans, and earnestly hoped for an external war, in order to their delivery from their domestical miseries. The citizens themselves were under a terrible consternation and fear; nor had they any opportunity of taking counsel, and of changing their conduct; nor were there any hopes of coming to an agreement with their enemies; nor could such as had a mind flee away; for guards were set at all places, and the heads of the robbers, although they were seditious one against another in other respects, yet did they agree in killing those that were for peace with the Romans, or were suspected of an inclination to desert them, as their common enemies. They agreed in nothing but this, to kill those that were innocent.
http://sacred-texts.com/jud/josephus/war-5.htm
The NIV gives a very interesting translation,
“There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
Jesus is not a little cryptic here but his use of analogy is what marks his teaching. What are these , sun and moon and stars? The sea we of course understand to be the restless sea of mankind, its political system always in a state of tumult, throwing up mire and seaweed. I doubt that even the most poker faced sceptic can deny that terrorism has marred this particular epoch above others.
The rise of terrorism.
If it seems like terrorist attacks are happening more and more often, it's because they are.
Last year marked the biggest annual rise in deaths caused by terrorism, with more than 32,000 people killed in attacks around the world.
The Institute for Economics and Peace has compiled its annual Global Terrorism Index and looked at the figures from 2000 to the end of 2014. It found terrorism is rising dramatically and private citizens are increasingly the targets.
But only a tiny fraction of terrorist attacks occur in Western nations, and of those, only one in five is perpetrated by Islamic extremists.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-17/global-terrorism-index-increase/6947200
Originally posted by galveston75You simply do not have an honest response to my comments. If you are going to simply dismiss anyone who disagrees that the last days are nigh, then what was the point of the thread? Just hide in your cellar with your hands over your eyes and ears and wait for the end of the world.
Here is the bibles answer to the posted comments which were expected of course.
Originally posted by twhiteheadad hominem
You simply do not have an honest response to my comments. If you are going to simply dismiss anyone who disagrees that the last days are nigh, then what was the point of the thread? Just hide in your cellar with your hands over your eyes and ears and wait for the end of the world.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason
https://www.wordnik.com/words/ad%20hominem
- Joined
- 16 Feb 08
- Moves
- 117006
Originally posted by galveston75You just sound like a calmer version of data; claiming you are right and no one can see what you see.
Again the bible says ( not me) that most will not see it or recognize the signs as sad as that is because all that don't are endangering their life's. But that is the way it is and nothing I can do or say will change any of your minds, period. So, until something happens in your hearts and minds that will let you see it, you won't and will continue to ar ...[text shortened]... rs on this earth who are paying attention to Jesus's words on this subject and listening to him.