Originally posted by SwissGambitThanks. I know we usually get the ole " well if everyone believed as you do we'd all die". Well if everyone believed like we do...duh, no one would be fighting anyone.
I am sympathetic to the JW position even if I do not share it. War sucks. I wish we never had to do it. I am opposed to most of the wars my country is fighting and has fought since WWII.
-Removed-Let me see if I understand you.
You had indicated that you thought that all the apostles were brutally executed.
You started a thread which has a premise that doesn't seem to hold up to scrutiny.
In the case of the former, I pointed out that it wasn't true.
In the case of the latter, I pointed out that fact and have repeatedly asked you to provide evidence otherwise.
Now, in your mind, this makes me an "arse".
Do I understand you correctly? Any chance that it is you who is being an "arse"?
-Removed-You pitched a hissy fit and call me an "arse" because you believe I didn't read my own link? That is hard to believe. Seems much more likely that you've taken exception to someone taking issue with your posts. Wouldn't it have been simpler for you to have addressed the issues instead of all this nonsense?
BTW I did read the link as I explained earlier:
I did read it "carefully". As I posted earlier, the "support" was less than firm:
[quote]... most of the other accounts are couched in terms such as "claims are", "may have been", "possible", etc. So there does seem to be doubt about how factual the "tradition[al]" stories are and in some cases there are more than one...There are other problems as well.
Some of the other problems with your premise were listed by TW:
But once again, I do not believe that there is good evidence that the disciples died for something they knew to be a complete lie there are many possibilities including:
1. That most of them were not martyred as claimed.
2. That they were killed for other reasons.
3. That they were not given a choice of renounce or die.
4. That they genuinely believed that Jesus rose from the dead.
5. That the did not make any such claim.
6. That the claim was not central to their teachings / religion.
But of course you evaded the issue in your discussion with TW just as you've been evading the issue in your discussion with me. [/quote]
Not sure why you still can't seem to be able to wrap your mind around the above.
-Removed-You can insist that I didn't read the link. I suppose you'd know better than me whether or not I did, lol.
Face it, what you find "irritating" is that there have been issues with your posts and to avoid addressing them, you've taken to all manner of unscrupulous tactics.
What are you accomplishing besides embarrassing yourself?
-Removed-No, I am imagining that, even if they were given a chance to renounce their faith, they were unwilling to do so because they believed most of its precepts [or at least the most important precepts] to be true, even if they knew some of them were lies [like perhaps the resurrection of Jesus].