12 Dec 09
Originally posted by divegeesterI don't think so. I would follow the golden rule either way. If absolute power corrupts absolutely, then god could be malevolent, and if that is so, one would be heroic to disobey god. To me, the Christian god is clearly malevolent because he let his son suffer on the cross, he would send gays to hell, as well as all who don't believe in him. Not very nice!
If the opposite was proved to you, would you act any differently?
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12 Dec 09
Originally posted by divegeesterIf I could some how prove to you that there is no god (for the sake of argument) would you act any differently than you do now in your day to day life?
If the opposite was proved to you, would you act any differently?
Not much. My occasional debates with believers might become redundant.
If the opposite was proved to you, would you act any differently?
Probably, although it would depend on what the god or gods were like.
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12 Dec 09
Originally posted by 667joeInteresting. You must be very brave to stand firm on that resolution in the totally reality and face-to-face confrontation with an immense all powerful malevolent being set on your destruction. Personally I'd do whatever it took to be spared the wrath.
I don't think so. I would follow the golden rule either way. If absolute power corrupts absolutely, then god could be malevolent, and if that is so, one would be heroic to disobey god. To me, the Christian god is clearly malevolent because he let his son suffer on the cross, he would send gays to hell, as well as all who don't believe in him. Not very nice!
12 Dec 09
ive often thought at low ebbs of my spirutuailty that there is still a strong quieter attractive notion of goodness that abounds in my thoughts and experiences so my choices are still my chosing , im not sure this answers the question and that is really not my intention but it it is a worthy suject to discuss among friends ............... Merry christmas
12 Dec 09
Originally posted by 667joe==================================
If I could some how prove to you that there is no god (for the sake of argument) would you act any differently than you do now in your day to day life? ðŸ˜
If I could some how prove to you that there is no god (for the sake of argument) would you act any differently than you do now in your day to day life?
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You mean you haven't proved it yet ??
12 Dec 09
Originally posted by epiphinehasWell, obviously there would be no use in prayer since there would be no God there with whom to commune or converse. I can't imagine I would talk with someone I knew wasn't there.
I'd have to say, yes. Definitely.
There would no good reason to attend church. I attend church now to find encouragement in my faith, to worship God in song, to hear the word of God preached, etc. Take away God and the primary reason for attending church would be gone.
I would no longer read Christian literature and apologetics, nor would I read the Bible religiously.
I would no longer give money to the church, for obvious reasons.
I would labor to free others from the false belief in God, instead of laboring to convince others of the legitimacy of the Gospel.
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Having said that, I must say, all things considered, I find Christian belief far more reasonable than atheistic belief. Part of Christian belief is that the imparting of the Holy Spirit (i.e., the empowerment received from the presence of God's Spirit in the believer's spirit) actually gives the believer the power to overcome sin. Yes, the golden rule is legitimately a secular standard as well, but Christian belief maintains that, although the natural, non-spirit-filled man can know the difference between right and wrong, what he lacks is the capacity to consistently and demonstrably choose right over wrong.
In other words, the natural, non-spirit-filled man is simply incapable of living a holy life, even though he may endorse the golden rule as a standard of behavior. The holy lives of those who proclaim faith in Christ, by contrast, is the evidence of the activity of the indwelling Holy Spirit, and therefore, in my view, evidence that God does in fact exist.
13 Dec 09
What is the reason then that, if you go by population ratio's, percentage wise, fewer atheists are in jail. Plus, if your theory were true, there would be no Christians committing crimes which is clearly not the case. Some Christians openly bash gays which is a crime, and they do it with biblical justification. Think of the thousands of witches burned at the stake with the approval of Christians. No, I will put my lot in with atheists such as Thomas Edison, Thomas Paine, Bill Gates, and Abraham Lincoln any time.
13 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by 667joe====================================
If I could some how prove to you that there is no god (for the sake of argument) would you act any differently than you do now in your day to day life? ðŸ˜
If I could some how prove to you that there is no god (for the sake of argument) would you act any differently than you do now in your day to day life?
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This question carries with it some very large assumptions.
There is the assumption here that the belief in God is only something in the mind, with the mentality. Belief in God is assumed here to be purely an intellectual matter which can be "proved" or "disproved" by argumentation.
It does not take into account "the peace of Christ which surpasses everyman's understanding"
That is a presense of divine peace deeper than the figurations of the intellect. A peace which "surpasses" a man's "understanding".
This is a sense deeper than the intellect. In John it is called "the innermost being" literally the belly.
"He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water. But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed into Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet because Jesus had not yet been glorified." (John 7:39)
By argumentation one might present some kind of logic that perhaps convinced someone that God is not real. But what does he do about the presence of the Holy Spirit flowing out of his innermost being?
Maybe it is assumed that that is just some nice sounding words.
How are you going to talk the presence of the Holy Spirit out of the innermost being of the Christian ? This is something deeper than the mind.
"The Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God." (Rom. 8:16)
You would have to convince me that there is not another Person within me bearing witness with my spirit, with my innermost being, that I am "organically" joined to God the Father.
Men and woman endure torture and death because of that innermost witness of the Holy Spirit. Do you think a little argumentation can deal with that ?
You would have to do more than convince me of atheism. You would have to convince me that the Person who resides in my innermost being is something else, something not living, not divine, not another Spirit.
Do you have any idea what in the last 2000 years men and woman have endured because of the assurance against all the rages of the mind that Christ is ALIVE and available to have communion with ?
Do you think a mother could witness her child torn apart by lions in a Roman arena, simply because of some good theological arguments ? That is some intellectual ideas that just maybe you could convince someone that you have a better philosophy.
They endured these things, and we continue to endure much, because in the innermost being we TOUCH something more real than anything else in the world. The Bible calls this the Spirit of Reality or the Spirit of truth:
"And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Conmforter, that He may be with you forever, Even the Spirit of reality, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not behold Him or know Him, but you know Him, because He abides with you and shall be in you. I will not leave you as orphans; I am coming to you." (John 14:16-18)
I have told you all before - "the last Adam became a life giving Spirit".
CHRIST became in a form in which He can impart Himself into man as divine life. He said "I will not leave you as orphans; I AM COMING TO YOU."
The coming of the Spirit of reality, the Comforter Who is to be with the disciples FOREVER, is Jesus Christ in another form. He was WITH them. He is going to become IN them, not leaving them as orphans.
You have to convince me that this Person, the Spirit of reality, the Comforter within me, is not Jesus. But it is Jesus.
13 Dec 09
Originally posted by jaywillWhat? Can that be downsized to answer the thread?
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If I could some how prove to you that there is no god (for the sake of argument) would you act any differently than you do now in your day to day life?
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This question carries with it some very large assumptions.
There is the assumption here that the belief ...[text shortened]... it of reality, the Comforter within me, is not Jesus. But it is Jesus.[/b]
13 Dec 09
1 edit
Originally posted by 667joeA Christian that follows the Bible and examples in the Bible of God's viewpont of gays, would not "bash" them, but would not fellowship with them in anyway unless they were to stop the practice of homosexuality which is completely "forbidden" in the scriptures.
What is the reason then that, if you go by population ratio's, percentage wise, fewer atheists are in jail. Plus, if your theory were true, there would be no Christians committing crimes which is clearly not the case. Some Christians openly bash gays which is a crime, and they do it with biblical justification. Think of the thousands of witches burned a ...[text shortened]... n with atheists such as Thomas Edison, Thomas Paine, Bill Gates, and Abraham Lincoln any time.
A Christian would never hate another man as Jesus told us to love our enemy but Jesus never said to "fellowship" with ones who practice sin willfully.