1. Gangster Land
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    08 Dec '06 19:52
    What would Jesus do if he were put in charge of your church?

    Would Jesus buy a new digital overhead projector or buy food for a soup kitchen?
    Would Jesus buy new hymnals or buy coats for the homeless?
    Would Jesus work at a Christian summer camp or try to reach out to disaffected youths?
    Would Jesus pave a new parking lot for the church or build a house for a needy family?
    Would Jesus build a new wing or build a free health clinic?
    Would Jesus send missionaries to New Guinea or help fight the HIV/Aids epidemic in Africa?

    Would Jesus insist you go to church every Sunday so that you can congratulate each other on what amazing faith you have or would he insist you do something useful, something helpful, something HE would do?

    Who is in charge of your church?

    Yeah, what I have written above is the very definition of propaganda, I admit it, but does that make it false? Too many churches have changed the emphasis of their ministries from being a beacon of Christ’s love to simply doing whatever it takes to maintain the status quo. I don’t know about you, but Jesus never struck me as the status quo kind of guy. Too many churches, maybe even yours, have made simple existence their soul purpose. In order to do that they need your help and your money, don’t give them either, demand more, demand they put Jesus back in charge.

    WWJD, indeed.

    This message brought to you by a Christian who is icked ff for hrist (TOC). Are you unhappy with your church experience? Do you feel your fellow Christians have lost sight of what Jesus stood for? It’s time to TOC.

    Anyone know who wrote it?

    TheSkipper
  2. Donationkirksey957
    Outkast
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    08 Dec '06 21:50
    Originally posted by TheSkipper
    What would Jesus do if he were put in charge of your church?

    Would Jesus buy a new digital overhead projector or buy food for a soup kitchen?
    Would Jesus buy new hymnals or buy coats for the homeless?
    Would Jesus work at a Christian summer camp or try to reach out to disaffected youths?
    Would Jesus pave a new parking lot for the church or build a ho ...[text shortened]... ost sight of what Jesus stood for? It’s time to TOC.

    Anyone know who wrote it?

    TheSkipper
    A lot to think about and I think we know the answer to your questions. Let me ask you a question. We all know the church is limited in its understanding and its mission. But how would the "Gospel" or the "Kingdom" be manifested in the spiritual forums if it were left up to you? What would you like to see?
  3. Gangster Land
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    08 Dec '06 22:081 edit
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    A lot to think about and I think we know the answer to your questions. Let me ask you a question. We all know the church is limited in its understanding and its mission. But how would the "Gospel" or the "Kingdom" be manifested in the spiritual forums if it were left up to you? What would you like to see?
    Well, that is tough to answer but it seems important since the world is moving more and more toward an "online" society. Christians need to devise a way to effect positive change through Christ via an increasingly virtual population.

    My ideas?

    It would be nice if so many of the Christians on this site stopped selling their faith as if it were a competing scientific theory. I would also like to see Christians cut the passive-aggressive posts and simply respond with thier opinion and ideas...LH does a pretty nice job of this, I think. However, I think the single most effective thing Christians can do in a forum such as this is behave like Jesus would. Respect everybody, show interest in the ideas of others and offer their own ideas and opinions with the understanding that nobody has to agree with them. Finally, they could admit the possibility of being wrong (however remote the possibility may seem). Nobody likes a know-it-all and I think the history of Christianity clearly shows that they certainly do not know it all and behaving as if they do in spite of all the evidence to the contrary makes them look like fools.

    After all, religion is basically a public relations game and with prescious few exceptions what I see here from the Christians is not winning that game...not even close.

    TheSkipper
  4. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    08 Dec '06 23:391 edit
    Originally posted by TheSkipper

    Anyone know who wrote it?
    RWillis?
  5. Standard memberDoctorScribbles
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    08 Dec '06 23:5814 edits
    Originally posted by TheSkipper


    It would be nice if so many of the Christians on this site stopped selling their faith as if it were a competing scientific theory.

    I think the single most effective thing Christians can do in a forum such as this is behave like Jesus would.

    After all, religion is basically a public relations game and with prescious few exceptions what I see here from the Christians is not winning that game...not even close.
    Professor, here's the thing. If Christians simply abandoned the sales pitch and starting doing what Jesus would do, what would then distinguish them from atheists who adhere to Jesus' moral code? From a practical standpoint of an observing third party, nothing. That observer could only distinguish the two if the Christian wears a special T-shirt, or says "God bless you" or "See you in heaven" as he goes about loving his neighbor as Jesus would do and as the atheist does.

    So, for Christians who value their Christianity as an identity, and to the extent that they wish to be distinguished from moral atheists, it does not suffice for them to merely do what Jesus would do. That doesn't satisfy their need to be identified as a part of the "good team." Thus, you will always have the salesmanship as long as Christians feel the need to have their Christian identity acknowledged by others.

    Of course, such a need puts a Christian in a bind, considering John 13:35: "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." If atheists love one another, they would be mistaken for Christians, but Christians can't stand for that! So, they must in light of their need for identity reject Jesus' proclamation and insist that being a disciple of Christ means something else. The only logical alternative is to accept that atheists who also love their fellow man are Christ's disciples, in which case being his disciple does not require believing that he is God. The latter option is not particularly appealing to the Christian who puts himself in this bind, hence the salesmanship that comes with choosing the first horn of the dilemma.

    Finally, perhaps Christians think that they don't in fact love one another to a sufficient degree to be recognized as Christians under the criterion given by Jesus in the verse, and thus seek other routes for gaining that recognition, such as being seen in church or the various other acts questioned in the opening post. This would be an alternate explanation for the salesmanship observed here.
  6. Felicific Forest
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    09 Dec '06 01:421 edit
    Luke, Chapter 7 NAB

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PWQ.HTM


    1 1 2 When he had finished all his words to the people, he entered Capernaum.

    2 A centurion 3 there had a slave who was ill and about to die, and he was valuable to him.

    3 When he heard about Jesus, he sent elders of the Jews to him, asking him to come and save the life of his slave.

    4 They approached Jesus and strongly urged him to come, saying, "He deserves to have you do this for him,

    5 for he loves our nation and he built the synagogue for us."

    6 And Jesus went with them, but when he was only a short distance from the house, the centurion sent friends to tell him, "Lord, do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you enter under my roof. 4

    7 Therefore, I did not consider myself worthy to come to you; but say the word and let my servant be healed.

    8 For I too am a person subject to authority, with soldiers subject to me. And I say to one, 'Go,' and he goes; and to another, 'Come here,' and he comes; and to my slave, 'Do this,' and he does it."

    9 When Jesus heard this he was amazed at him and, turning, said to the crowd following him, "I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith."

    10 When the messengers returned to the house, they found the slave in good health.

    11 5 Soon afterward he journeyed to a city called Nain, and his disciples and a large crowd accompanied him.

    12 As he drew near to the gate of the city, a man who had died was being carried out, the only son of his mother, and she was a widow. A large crowd from the city was with her.

    13 When the Lord saw her, he was moved with pity for her and said to her, "Do not weep."

    14 He stepped forward and touched the coffin; at this the bearers halted, and he said, "Young man, I tell you, arise!"

    15 The dead man sat up and began to speak, and Jesus gave him to his mother.

    16 Fear seized them all, and they glorified God, exclaiming, "A great prophet has arisen in our midst," and "God has visited his people."

    17 This report about him spread through the whole of Judea and in all the surrounding region.

    18 6 The disciples of John told him about all these things. John summoned two of his disciples

    19 and sent them to the Lord to ask, "Are you the one who is to come, or should we look for another?"

    20 When the men came to him, they said, "John the Baptist has sent us to you to ask, 'Are you the one who is to come, or should we look for another?'"

    21 At that time he cured many of their diseases, sufferings, and evil spirits; he also granted sight to many who were blind.

    22 And he said to them in reply, "Go and tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind regain their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, the poor have the good news proclaimed to them.

    23 And blessed is the one who takes no offense at me." 7

    24 8 When the messengers of John had left, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John. "What did you go out to the desert to see - a reed swayed by the wind?

    25 Then what did you go out to see? Someone dressed in fine garments? Those who dress luxuriously and live sumptuously are found in royal palaces.

    26 Then what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet.

    27 This is the one about whom scripture says: 'Behold, I am sending my messenger ahead of you, he will prepare your way before you.'

    28 I tell you, among those born of women, no one is greater than John; yet the least in the kingdom of God is greater than he."

    29 (All the people who listened, including the tax collectors, and who were baptized with the baptism of John, acknowledged the righteousness of God;

    30 but the Pharisees and scholars of the law, who were not baptized by him, rejected the plan of God for themselves.)

    31 9 "Then to what shall I compare the people of this generation? What are they like?

    32 They are like children who sit in the marketplace and call to one another, 'We played the flute for you, but you did not dance. We sang a dirge, but you did not weep.'

    33 For John the Baptist came neither eating food nor drinking wine, and you said, 'He is possessed by a demon.'

    34 The Son of Man came eating and drinking and you said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.'

    35 But wisdom is vindicated by all her children."


    36 A Pharisee invited him to dine with him, and he entered the Pharisee's house and reclined at table.

    37 Now there was a sinful woman in the city who learned that he was at table in the house of the Pharisee. Bringing an alabaster flask of ointment,

    38 she stood behind him at his feet weeping and began to bathe his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them, and anointed them with the ointment.

    39 When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who and what sort of woman this is who is touching him, that she is a sinner."

    40 Jesus said to him in reply, "Simon, I have something to say to you." "Tell me, teacher," he said.

    41 "Two people were in debt to a certain creditor; one owed five hundred days' wages 12 and the other owed fifty.

    42 Since they were unable to repay the debt, he forgave it for both. Which of them will love him more?"

    43 Simon said in reply, "The one, I suppose, whose larger debt was forgiven." He said to him, "You have judged rightly."

    44 Then he turned to the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? When I entered your house, you did not give me water for my feet, but she has bathed them with her tears and wiped them with her hair.

    45 You did not give me a kiss, but she has not ceased kissing my feet since the time I entered.

    46 You did not anoint my head with oil, but she anointed my feet with ointment.

    47 So I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven; hence, she has shown great love. But the one to whom little is forgiven, loves little."

    48 He said to her, "Your sins are forgiven."

    49 The others at table said to themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?"

    50 But he said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."


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    1 [⇒ 7:1-⇒ 8:3] The episodes in this section present a series of reactions to the Galilean ministry of Jesus and reflect some of Luke's particular interests: the faith of a Gentile (⇒ Luke 7:1-10); the prophet Jesus' concern for a widowed mother (⇒ Luke 7:11-17); the ministry of Jesus directed to the afflicted and unfortunate of ⇒ Isaiah 61:1 (⇒ Luke 7:18-23); the relation between John and Jesus and their role in God's plan for salvation (⇒ Luke 7:24-35); a forgiven sinner's manifestation of love (⇒ Luke 7:36-50); the association of women with the ministry of Jesus (⇒ Luke 8:1-3).

    2 [1-10] This story about the faith of the centurion, a Gentile who cherishes the Jewish nation (⇒ Luke 7:5), prepares for the story in Acts of the conversion by Peter of the Roman centurion Cornelius who is similarly described as one who is generous to the Jewish nation (⇒ Acts 10:2). See also ⇒ Acts 10:34-35 in the speech of Peter: "God shows no partiality . . . the person who fears him and acts righteously is acceptable to him." See also the notes on ⇒ Matthew 8:5-13 and ⇒ John 4:43-54.

    3 [2] A centurion: see the note on ⇒ Matthew 8:5.

    4 [6] I am not worthy to have you enter under my roof: to enter the house of a Gentile was considered unclean for a Jew; cf ⇒ Acts 10:28.

    5 [11-17] In the previous incident Jesus' power was displayed for a Gentile whose servant was dying; in this episode it is displayed toward a widowed mother whose only son has already died. Jesus' power over death prepares for his reply to John's disciples in ⇒ Luke 7:22: "the dead are raised." This resuscitation in alluding to the prophet Elijah's resurrection of the only son of a widow of Zarephath (⇒ 1 Kings 7:8-24) leads to the reaction of the crowd: "A great prophet has arisen in our midst" (⇒ Luke 7:16).

    6 [18-23] In answer to John's question, Are you the one who is to come? - a probable reference to the return of the fiery prophet of reform, Elijah, "before the day of the Lord comes, the great and terrible day" (⇒ Malachi 3:23) - Jesus responds that his role is rather to bring the blessings spoken of in ⇒ Isaiah 61:1 to the oppressed and neglected of society (⇒ Luke 7:22; cf ⇒ Luke 4:18).

    7 [23] Blessed is the one who takes no offense at me: this beatitude is pronounced on the person who recognizes Jesus' true identity in spite of previous expectations of what "the one who is to come" would be like.

    8 [24-30] In his testimony to John, Jesus reveals his understanding of the relationship between them: John is the precursor of Jesus (⇒ Luke 7:27); John is the messenger spoken of in ⇒ Malachi 3:1 who in ⇒ Malachi 3:23 is identified as Elijah. Taken with the previous episode, it can be seen that Jesus identifies John as precisely the person John envisioned Jesus to be: the Elijah who prepares the way for the coming of the day of the Lord.

    9 [31-35] See the note on ⇒ Matthew 11:16-19.

    10 [36-50] In this story of the pardoning of the sinful woman Luke presents two different reactions to the ministry of Jesus. .......
  7. Felicific Forest
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    09 Dec '06 01:44
    10 [36-50] In this story of the pardoning of the sinful woman Luke presents two different reactions to the ministry of Jesus. A Pharisee, suspecting Jesus to be a prophet, invites Jesus to a festive banquet in his house, but the Pharisee's self-righteousness leads to little forgiveness by God and consequently little love shown toward Jesus. The sinful woman, on the other hand, manifests a faith in God (⇒ Luke 7:50) that has led her to seek forgiveness for her sins, and because so much was forgiven, she now overwhelms Jesus with her display of love; cf the similar contrast in attitudes in ⇒ Luke 18:9-14. The whole episode is a powerful lesson on the relation between forgiveness and love.


    11 [36] Reclined at table: the normal posture of guests at a banquet. Other oriental banquet customs alluded to in this story include the reception by the host with a kiss (⇒ Luke 7:45), washing the feet of the guests (⇒ Luke 7:44), and the anointing of the guests' heads (⇒ Luke 7:46).


    12 [41] Days' wages: one denarius is the normal daily wage of a laborer.


    13 [47] Her many sins have been forgiven; hence, she has shown great love: literally, "her many sins have been forgiven, seeing that she has loved much." That the woman's sins have been forgiven is attested by the great love she shows toward Jesus. Her love is the consequence of her forgiveness. This is also the meaning demanded by the parable in ⇒ Luke 7:41-43.
  8. Felicific Forest
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    09 Dec '06 01:44
    Matthew Chapter 7 NAB

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PVG.HTM


    1 1 2 "Stop judging, that you may not be judged.

    2 For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.

    3 Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?

    4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove that splinter from your eye,' while the wooden beam is in your eye?

    5 You hypocrite, 3 remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother's eye.

    6 "Do not give what is holy to dogs, 4 or throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them underfoot, and turn and tear you to pieces.

    7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

    8 For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

    9 Which one of you would hand his son a stone when he asks for a loaf of bread, 5

    10 or a snake when he asks for a fish?

    11 If you then, who are wicked, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give good things to those who ask him.

    12 6 "Do to others whatever you would have them do to you. This is the law and the prophets.

    13 7 8 "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many.

    14 How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few.

    15 9 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves.

    16 By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

    17 Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit.

    18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit.

    19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

    20 So by their fruits you will know them.

    21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, 10 but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.

    22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?'

    23 Then I will declare to them solemnly, 'I never knew you. 11 Depart from me, you evildoers.'

    24 12 "Everyone who listens to these words of mine and acts on them will be like a wise man who built his house on rock.

    25 The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. But it did not collapse; it had been set solidly on rock.

    26 And everyone who listens to these words of mine but does not act on them will be like a fool who built his house on sand.

    27 The rain fell, the floods came, and the winds blew and buffeted the house. And it collapsed and was completely ruined."

    28 13 When Jesus finished these words, the crowds were astonished at his teaching,

    29 14 for he taught them as one having authority, and not as their scribes.






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    1 [1-12] In ⇒ Matthew 7:1 Matthew returns to the basic traditional material of the sermon (⇒ Luke 6:37-38, ⇒ 41-42). The governing thought is the correspondence between conduct toward one's fellows and God's conduct toward the one so acting.


    2 [1] This is not a prohibition against recognizing the faults of others, which would be hardly compatible with ⇒ Matthew 7:5, 6 but against passing judgment in a spirit of arrogance, forgetful of one's own faults.


    3 [5] Hypocrite: the designation previously given to the scribes and Pharisees is here given to the Christian disciple who is concerned with the faults of another and ignores his own more serious offenses.


    4 [6] Dogs and swine were Jewish terms of contempt for Gentiles. This saying may originally have derived from a Jewish Christian community opposed to preaching the gospel (what is holy, pearls) to Gentiles. In the light of ⇒ Matthew 28:19 that can hardly be Matthew's meaning. He may have taken the saying as applying to a Christian dealing with an obstinately impenitent fellow Christian (⇒ Matthew 18:17).


    5 [9-10] There is a resemblance between a stone and a round loaf of bread and between a serpent and the scaleless fish called barbut.


    6 [12] See ⇒ Luke 6:31. This saying, known since the eighteenth century as the "Golden Rule," is found in both positive and negative form in pagan and Jewish sources, both earlier and later than the gospel. This is the law and the prophets is an addition probably due to the evangelist.


    7 [13-28] The final section of the discourse is composed of a series of antitheses, contrasting two kinds of life within the Christian community, that of those who obey the words of Jesus and that of those who do not. Most of the sayings are from Q and are found also in Luke.


    8 [13-14] The metaphor of the "two ways" was common in pagan philosophy and in the Old Testament. In Christian literature it is found also in the Didache (1-6) and the Epistle of Barnabas (18-20).


    9 [15-20] Christian disciples who claimed to speak in the name of God are called prophets (⇒ Matthew 7:15) in ⇒ Matthew 10:41; ⇒ Matthew 23:34. They were presumably an important group within the church of Matthew. As in the case of the Old Testament prophets, there were both true and false ones, and for Matthew the difference could be recognized by the quality of their deeds, the fruits (⇒ Matthew 7:16). The mention of fruits leads to the comparison with trees, some producing good fruit, others bad.


    10 [21-23] The attack on the false prophets is continued, but is broadened to include those disciples who perform works of healing and exorcism in the name of Jesus (Lord) but live evil lives. Entrance into the kingdom is only for those who do the will of the Father. On the day of judgment (on that day) the morally corrupt prophets and miracle workers will be rejected by Jesus.


    11 [23] I never knew you: cf ⇒ Matthew 10:33. Depart from me, you evildoers: cf ⇒ Psalm 6:8.


    12 [24-27] The conclusion of the discourse (cf ⇒ Luke 6:47-49). Here the relation is not between saying and doing as in ⇒ Matthew 7:15-23 but between hearing and doing, and the words of Jesus are applied to every Christian (everyone who listens).


    13 [28-29] When Jesus finished these words: this or a similar formula is used by Matthew to conclude each of the five great discourses of Jesus (cf ⇒ Matthew 11:1; ⇒ 13:53; ⇒ 19:1; ⇒ 26:1).

    14 [29] Not as their scribes: scribal instruction was a faithful handing down of the traditions of earlier teachers; Jesus' teaching is based on his own authority. Their scribes: for the implications of their, see the note on ⇒ Matthew 4:23.
  9. Felicific Forest
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    09 Dec '06 01:452 edits
    Chapter 11

    http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PVK.HTM



    1 When Jesus finished giving these commands to his twelve disciples, 1 he went away from that place to teach and to preach in their towns.

    2 2 When John heard in prison 3 of the works of the Messiah, he sent his disciples to him

    3 4 with this question, "Are you the one who is to come, or should we look for another?"

    4 Jesus said to them in reply, "Go and tell John what you hear and see:

    5 5 the blind regain their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the poor have the good news proclaimed to them.

    6 And blessed is the one who takes no offense at me."

    7 6 As they were going off, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John, "What did you go out to the desert to see? A reed swayed by the wind?

    8 Then what did you go out to see? Someone dressed in fine clothing? Those who wear fine clothing are in royal palaces.

    9 Then why did you go out? To see a prophet? 7 Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet.

    10 This is the one about whom it is written: 'Behold, I am sending my messenger ahead of you; he will prepare your way before you.'

    11 Amen, I say to you, among those born of women there has been none greater than John the Baptist; yet the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 8

    12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, 9 and the violent are taking it by force.

    13 All the prophets and the law 10 prophesied up to the time of John.

    14 And if you are willing to accept it, he is Elijah, the one who is to come.

    15 Whoever has ears ought to hear.

    16 "To what shall I compare this generation? 11 It is like children who sit in marketplaces and call to one another,

    17 'We played the flute for you, but you did not dance, we sang a dirge but you did not mourn.'

    18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they said, 'He is possessed by a demon.'

    19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking and they said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' But wisdom is vindicated by her works."

    20 Then he began to reproach the towns where most of his mighty deeds had been done, since they had not repented.

    21 "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty deeds done in your midst had been done in Tyre and Sidon, 12 they would long ago have repented in sackcloth and ashes.

    22 But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon on the day of judgment than for you.

    23 And as for you, Capernaum: 'Will you be exalted to heaven? You will go down to the netherworld.' 13 For if the mighty deeds done in your midst had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

    24 But I tell you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom on the day of judgment than for you."

    25 At that time Jesus said in reply, 14 "I give praise to you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for although you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned you have revealed them to the childlike.

    26 Yes, Father, such has been your gracious will.

    27 All things have been handed over to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son wishes to reveal him.

    28 15 "Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened, 16 and I will give you rest.

    29 17 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for your selves.

    30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden light."


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    1 [1] The closing formula of the discourse refers back to the original addressees, the Twelve.


    2 [⇒ 11:2-⇒ 12:50] The narrative section of the third book deals with the growing opposition to Jesus. It is largely devoted to disputes and attacks relating to faith and discipleship and thus contains much sayings-material, drawn in large part from Q.


    3 [2] In prison: see ⇒ Matthew 4:12; ⇒ 14:1-12. The works of the Messiah: the deeds of Matthew 8-9.


    4 [3] The question probably expresses a doubt of the Baptist that Jesus is the one who is to come (cf ⇒ Malachi 3:1) because his mission has not been one of fiery judgment as John had expected (⇒ Matthew 3:2).


    5 [5-6] Jesus' response is taken from passages of Isaiah (⇒ Isaiah 26:19; ⇒ 29:18-19; ⇒ 35:5-6; ⇒ 61:1) that picture the time of salvation as marked by deeds such as those that Jesus is doing. The beatitude is a warning to the Baptist not to disbelieve because his expectations have not been met.


    6 [7-19] Jesus' rebuke of John is counterbalanced by a reminder of the greatness of the Baptist's function (⇒ Matthew 11:7-15) that is followed by a complaint about those who have heeded neither John nor Jesus (⇒ Matthew 11:16-19).


    7 [9-10] In common Jewish belief there had been no prophecy in Israel since the last of the Old Testament prophets, Malachi. The coming of a new prophet was eagerly awaited, and Jesus agrees that John was such. Yet he was more than a prophet, for he was the precursor of the one who would bring in the new and final age. The Old Testament quotation is a combination of ⇒ Malachi 3:1; ⇒ Exodus 23:20 with the significant change that the before me of Malachi becomes before you. The messenger now precedes not God, as in the original, but Jesus.


    8 [11] John's preeminent greatness lies in his function of announcing the imminence of the kingdom (⇒ Matthew 3:1). But to be in the kingdom is so great a privilege that the least who has it is greater than the Baptist.


    9 [12] The meaning of this difficult saying is probably that the opponents of Jesus are trying to prevent people from accepting the kingdom and to snatch it away from those who have received it.


    10 [13] All the prophets and the law: Matthew inverts the usual order, "law and prophets," and says that both have prophesied. This emphasis on the prophetic character of the law points to its fulfillment in the teaching of Jesus and to the transitory nature of some of its commandments (see the note on ⇒ Matthew 5:17-20).


    11 [16-19] See ⇒ Luke 7:31-35. The meaning of the parable (⇒ Matthew 11:16-17) and its explanation (⇒ Matthew 11:18-19b) is much disputed. A plausible view is that the children of the parable are two groups, one of which proposes different entertainments to the other that will not agree with either proposal. The first represents John, Jesus, and their disciples; the second those who reject John for his asceticism and Jesus for his table association with those despised by the religiously observant. ⇒ Matthew 11:19c (her works) forms an inclusion with ⇒ Matthew 11:2 ("the works of the Messiah" ). The original form of the saying is better preserved in ⇒ Luke 7:35 ". . . wisdom is vindicated by all her children." There John and Jesus are the children of Wisdom; here the works of Jesus the Messiah are those of divine Wisdom, of which he is the embodiment. Some important textual witnesses, however, have essentially the same reading as in Luke.


    12 [21] Tyre and Sidon were pagan cities denounced for their wickedness in the Old Testament; cf ⇒ Joel 3:4-7.


    13 [23] Capernaum's pride and punishment are described in language taken from the taunt song against the king of Babylon (⇒ Isaiah 14:13-15).


    14 [25-27] This Q saying, identical with ⇒ Luke 10:21-22 except for minor variations, introduces a joyous note into this section, so dominated by the theme of unbelief. While the wise and the learned, the scribes and Pharisees, have rejected Jesus' preaching and the significance of his mighty deeds, the childlike have accepted them. Acceptance depends upon the Father's revelation, but this is granted to those who are open to receive it and refused to the arrogant. Jesus can speak of all mysteries because he is the Son and there is perfect reciprocity of knowledge between him and the Father; what has been handed over to him is revealed only to those whom he wishes.


    15 [28-29] These verses are peculiar to Matthew and are similar to Ben Sirach's invitation to learn wisdom and submit to her yoke (⇒ Sirach 51:23, ⇒ 26).


    16 [28] Who labor and are burdened: burdened by the law as expounded by the scribes and Pharisees (⇒ Matthew 23:4).


    17 [29] In place of the yoke of the law, complicated by scribal interpretation, Jesus invites the burdened to take the yoke of obedience to his word, under which they will find rest; cf ⇒ Jeremiah 6:16.
  10. Donationkirksey957
    Outkast
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    09 Dec '06 02:09
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Professor, here's the thing. If Christians simply abandoned the sales pitch and starting doing what Jesus would do, what would then distinguish them from atheists who adhere to Jesus' moral code? From a practical standpoint of an observing third party, nothing. That observer could only distinguish the two if the Christian wears a special T-shirt, ...[text shortened]... post. This would be an alternate explanation for the salesmanship observed here.
    What loss should it be to me if say you and Bbarr love one another?
  11. Gangster Land
    Joined
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    14 Dec '06 19:47
    Ivan,

    Thanks for the glorious cut and paste job, it was awesome. Unfortunately, i have already read the Bible, many times, so if you could go ahed and just type out the point your are trying to make...in your own words...that would be great.

    Thanks

    TheSkipper
  12. Territories Unknown
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    15 Dec '06 01:02
    Originally posted by TheSkipper
    What would Jesus do if he were put in charge of your church?

    Would Jesus buy a new digital overhead projector or buy food for a soup kitchen?
    Would Jesus buy new hymnals or buy coats for the homeless?
    Would Jesus work at a Christian summer camp or try to reach out to disaffected youths?
    Would Jesus pave a new parking lot for the church or build a ho ...[text shortened]... ost sight of what Jesus stood for? It’s time to TOC.

    Anyone know who wrote it?

    TheSkipper
    No offense, but the insinuation is, anyone who does all the (supposedly) spiritual things numerated in the latter part of your post somehow gains immediate entrance to heaven. Sounds like works, which is as repulsive to God as any of the other sleights-of-hand illustrated in the first part of the rant. Who was the author, by the way? I drew blanks.
  13. Joined
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    15 Dec '06 02:10
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    No offense, but the insinuation is, anyone who does all the (supposedly) spiritual things numerated in the latter part of your post somehow gains immediate entrance to heaven. Sounds like works, which is as repulsive to God as any of the other sleights-of-hand illustrated in the first part of the rant. Who was the author, by the way? I drew blanks.
    What makes you believe that works are repulsive to God?
  14. Donationbbarr
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    15 Dec '06 02:26
    Originally posted by kirksey957
    What loss should it be to me if say you and Bbarr love one another?
    I love both of you.
  15. Joined
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    15 Dec '06 04:524 edits
    Originally posted by DoctorScribbles
    Professor, here's the thing. If Christians simply abandoned the sales pitch and starting doing what Jesus would do, what would then distinguish them from atheists who adhere to Jesus' moral code? From a practical standpoint of an observing third party, nothing. That observer could only distinguish the two if the Christian wears a special T-shirt, post. This would be an alternate explanation for the salesmanship observed here.
    After reading your post many people come to mind in tha past in my life that seem to have been very loving yet not been believers. In fact, when finding out that they are not believers it comes as a shock. So why is this? I think we were all created to love and we all do so to varying degrees. So what seperates the believer from the nonbeliever? I would say this verse does which is Matthew 5:43-48. It seperates the men from the boys. "You have heard that it has been said, 'You shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy.' But I say to you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despsitefully use you, and persecute you that you may be the children of your Father which is in heaven; for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. For if you love them which love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the publicans do the same? And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more than others? Do not publicans even do the same? But you therefore be perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." I say such love is grounded in the supernatural. It is not a natural act to show love to those who mistreat you. After all, we were not designed to be mistreated by others because we were not designed for a sinful world and we therefore do not naturally love those who mistreat us. Loving those who show us love, however, is a natural act.

    Also, the number one commandment in the Bible is to love the Lord your God with all your heart and soul and mind and then to love our neighbor as ourself. Why? In fact, Jesus said in Matthew 10:37 that whoever loves other people more than himself, they are not worthy of him. This is because we are to love God first and then our neighbor second as stated previosly. So what should we have greater love for, should we love those that were created by the entity who is the source of all love more than the source of love by which they were created? After all, if it were not for the source of all love which is God, we would have no love to share with others. So why love the created more than the creator?

    You also missed an important teaching of Christ which is seen in John 15:10. "If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love..." So we see that keeping God's commandments is equivalent to loving him. This is because all of God's commandments are rooted in love. They may not appear to be on the surface at times but they are nonetheless. We may not always understand why God tells us to do certain things but we must obey anyhow. After all, we do not always know what is best for us or for others in our lives but God does. Sometimes a loving act can even seem harsh on the surface. Therefore, if you are not following all of his commandments, you are not abiding fully in his love. You will fall short in the end.
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