Ying and yang-the original paradox

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Atheism refers to human rights

I'll get back to this post at a later point, but for now let's focus on the part that I highlighted:

No, it doesn't! Atheism does not "refer to human rights". It does not speak of animal rights. It says nothing about the fate of the universe. It does not state that evolution is happening. It is not a guaranteed path to peace and prosperity.

Atheism is an absence of belief in god(s)!
Atheism is an absence of belief in god(s)!
Atheism is an absence of belief in god(s)!
Atheism is an absence of belief in god(s)!

Why is this so difficult for theists to comprehend?? Why do you feel the need to assign all kinds of attributes to atheism that have nothing to do with atheism?

It is like saying theism refers to the taste of mustard. It makes no sense!

Originally posted by Great King Rat
I'll get back to this post at a later point, but for now let's focus on the part that I highlighted:

No, it doesn't! Atheism does not "refer to human rights". It does not speak of animal rights. It says nothing about the fate of the universe. It does not state that evolution is happening. It is not a guaranteed path to peace and prosperity.

Athe ...[text shortened]... ith atheism?

It is like saying theism refers to the taste of mustard. It makes no sense!

Ok, I can see this angle and I dont care so much whether it's a belief system or not. (I believe it could be argued that it is)

I have heard of atheists on here refute theists by saying how they could care for their fellow man , ie. empathize with them, without resorting to belief in any god or religion. So from this I concluded that atheists refer to basic human rights when making decisions.
I said nothing about animal rights or the fate of the universe, just that atheists have a moral compass, which is not derived from religion but from a basic understanding of humanity and its cross cultural applications.


So why do I like to assign attributes to atheism? Because I follow what self-declared atheists say on this forum , amongst other things.

"atheism is an absence in the belief in god(s)" ... as if this explained all. Buddhism doesn't believe in god(s) either but has a decidedly different slant on things than atheism.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Ok, I can see this angle and I dont care so much whether it's a belief system or not. (I believe it could be argued that it is)

I have heard of atheists on here refute theists by saying how they could care for their fellow man , ie. empathize with them, without resorting to belief in any god or religion. So from this I concluded that atheists refer t ...[text shortened]... doesn't believe in god(s) either but has a decidedly different slant on things than atheism.

Buddhists who don't believe in gods ARE atheists...

Although that's probably not in their case the most relevant label to use it's still a valid one.


If this is the idea you have got about atheism from reading this forum then I am not sure
you've been paying close enough attention.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Buddhists who don't believe in gods ARE atheists...

Although that's probably not in their case the most relevant label to use it's still a valid one.


If this is the idea you have got about atheism from reading this forum then I am not sure
you've been paying close enough attention.

'atheism is an absence of a belief in god(s)' hardly explains why atheists can help their fellow man just as well as theists (who do it sometimes to gain favor with the higher power). Nor does it explain why atheism is often synonymous with scientific knowledge.

Buddhism is a psychological system which does not recognize an individual soul or any higher power, also it says that any 'progress' is only via the efforts of the individual.
Buddhists are not atheists however as Buddhism seeks to understand the human condition and the methods whereby one may go beyond this world. This does infer another world with different laws and values but at no stage does Buddhism suggest what the nature of this other existence may be.
Like any good spiritual doctrine it starts with a premise and follows this through to it's logical conclusion.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
'atheism is an absence of a belief in god(s)' hardly explains why atheists can help their fellow man just as well as theists (who do it sometimes to gain favor with the higher power). Nor does it explain why atheism is often synonymous with scientific knowledge.

Buddhism is a psychological system which does not recognize an individual soul or any h ...[text shortened]... tual doctrine it starts with a premise and follows this through to it's logical conclusion.

Atheism IS the absence of belief in gods and no that doesn't explain why atheists can help
people as well as theists can.

Atheism is not a belief system.

It is a lack of a singular belief, that gods exist.

Atheists ability and desire to help people doesn't come from atheism, which is why atheism
doesn't explain it.


Also atheism is never synonymous with scientific knowledge... Where the heck did you get
that idea from?


If a Buddhist does not have a belief in god/s then they are also an atheist.

It's not, as I said, the most relevant or useful label, but it's still a valid and correct one.


All atheism is is a lack of belief in gods.


Now the atheist activist movement has all kinds of other things included in it, but that's
not the same thing as atheism.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Atheism IS the absence of belief in gods and no that doesn't explain why atheists can help
people as well as theists can.

Atheism is not a belief system.

It is a lack of a singular belief, that gods exist.

Atheists ability and desire to help people doesn't come from atheism, which is why atheism
doesn't explain it.


Also atheism is never ...[text shortened]... has all kinds of other things included in it, but that's
not the same thing as atheism.

Gotcha.

Perhaps in the future I shall say "atheists who post here" instead of atheism.

So if one believes in some form of spirituality , but not in any god(s) per se, are they an atheist? (You're comment on Buddhism seems to suggest so)

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Gotcha.

Perhaps in the future I shall say "atheists who post here" instead of atheism.

So if one believes in some form of spirituality , but not in any god(s) per se, are they an atheist? (You're comment on Buddhism seems to suggest so)

Yes. the only requirement for being an atheist is not having a belief that gods exist.
You can believe anything else and still be an atheist.

Which is one of the reasons its hard to answer "what atheists think about x" questions.

Activist atheists tend to have a greater overlap in beliefs, and tend to be skeptics as
well as often being humanists, either formally or informally.

But even then it's by no means guaranteed.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Yes. the only requirement for being an atheist is not having a belief that gods exist.
You can believe anything else and still be an atheist.

Which is one of the reasons its hard to answer "what atheists think about x" questions.

Activist atheists tend to have a greater overlap in beliefs, and tend to be skeptics as
well as often being humanists, either formally or informally.

But even then it's by no means guaranteed.

So an atheist can believe in an afterlife?

Originally posted by karoly aczel
So an atheist can believe in an afterlife?

They could, as long as no gods were involved.

As ever there would be no rational justification for doing so and they
would be wrong.

But it's not incompatible with being an atheist.

It pretty rare though, almost all afterlives have gods as gatekeepers.

I have a colleague who once told me she doesn't believe in god.

So I thought, ok, you're a sane person.

But then she started telling me that she believes in souls and that we don't really die but sort of reincarnate. She saw this in her son for instance, who was something like 5 years old but had the eyes and general "attitude" of someone who had lived for much longer. Blah blah blah.

So yes, atheists can have delusional, superstitious nonsense ideas as well. They just don't incorporate a really old man with a long beard into their fantasies.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
I have a colleague who once told me she doesn't believe in god.

So I thought, ok, you're a sane person.

But then she started telling me that she believes in souls and that we don't really die but sort of reincarnate. She saw this in her son for instance, who was something like 5 years old but had the eyes and general "attitude" of someone who ha ...[text shortened]... well. They just don't incorporate a really old man with a long beard into their fantasies.

Just so happens I dont believe in no god either so I must be an atheist.

Thanks to you and everyone else for engaging me so well. I do actually learn here unlike others.

Originally posted by Great King Rat
I have a colleague who once told me she doesn't believe in god.

So I thought, ok, you're a sane person.

But then she started telling me that she believes in souls and that we don't really die but sort of reincarnate. She saw this in her son for instance, who was something like 5 years old but had the eyes and general "attitude" of someone who ha ...[text shortened]... well. They just don't incorporate a really old man with a long beard into their fantasies.

The UK is often viewed as being highly atheistic, with (for a major country)
relative low levels of religious belief...

However we make up for it by having higher than normal levels of belief in
other woo like homoeopathy and astrology and such.

In particular we were the source of the latest round of anti-vax scares.

People are not nearly skeptical enough, atheist or otherwise.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Just so happens I dont believe in no god either so I must be an atheist.

Thanks to you and everyone else for engaging me so well. I do actually learn here unlike others.

This is true.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
Just so happens I dont believe in no god either so I must be an atheist.

Thanks to you and everyone else for engaging me so well. I do actually learn here unlike others.

Sorry, but I do wonder about that. Atheism simply being an absence of belief in god(s) has been mentioned here many, many times. How you would have missed all of those instances is beyond me.

Originally posted by googlefudge
The UK is often viewed as being highly atheistic, with (for a major country)
relative low levels of religious belief...

However we make up for it by having higher than normal levels of belief in
other woo like homoeopathy and astrology and such.

In particular we were the source of the latest round of anti-vax scares.

People are not nearly skeptical enough, atheist or otherwise.

True. God may not be a part of it, but many people will still look for the easy answers to the difficult questions and many people are still unable to deal with the fact that their lives are futile beyond what meaning they themselves give to it.

It's the same in the mostly atheistic Netherlands and I presume every other mostly atheistic country.