1. Joined
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    09 Sep '07 13:06
    if a believer is going through a bad time god is testing them, if they ask and don't receive god is teaching them, if they do ask and receive god is wonderful....

    god has a good deal with this wouldnt you say?
  2. Illinois
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    09 Sep '07 13:59
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    if a believer is going through a bad time god is testing them, if they ask and don't receive god is teaching them, if they do ask and receive god is wonderful....

    god has a good deal with this wouldnt you say?
    Well, He is God, after all. 🙂
  3. Joined
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    09 Sep '07 17:48
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    if a believer is going through a bad time god is testing them, if they ask and don't receive god is teaching them, if they do ask and receive god is wonderful....

    god has a good deal with this wouldnt you say?
    Conversly, if God is blessing you and you are going through a "good" time you may act as if God had nothing to do with it and/or you were just lucky and prayers were not really answered. Often God is not even thanked for his blessings when, in fact, everything you have and are presently is nothing short of a gift of God to you.

    I say either you have faith that God is on your side and doing what is best for you whether it be related to answered prayer or unanswered prayer or he is not really there or he is not really on your side.

    Edit: If God were required to answer ALL of your prayers it would'nt be prayer/petition now would it? Instead, it would be a command.
  4. Standard memberknightmeister
    knightmeister
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    09 Sep '07 19:02
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    if a believer is going through a bad time god is testing them, if they ask and don't receive god is teaching them, if they do ask and receive god is wonderful....

    god has a good deal with this wouldnt you say?
    It's just logic really. If God exists then there must be a reason why prayers go unasnwered. Infact it would not be prudent for God to answer every prayer. It would be quite a shallow faith that said that the moment things don't go well God doesn't exist. That would be fickle and transitory faith based on a naive kindergarten "god".
  5. Standard membertelerion
    True X X Xian
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    09 Sep '07 19:16
    Originally posted by whodey
    Conversly, if God is blessing you and you are going through a "good" time you may act as if God had nothing to do with it and/or you were just lucky and prayers were not really answered. Often God is not even thanked for his blessings when, in fact, everything you have and are presently is nothing short of a gift of God to you.

    I say either you have faith ...[text shortened]... of your prayers it would'nt be prayer/petition now would it? Instead, it would be a command.
    Which brings up the question "why pray for something at all?" God knew before he created the universe that you would want this thing. He knew whether he would answer yes or no. If God wanted it to happen it will, whether you pray or not. If God didn't want it to happen, it won't whether you pray or not.

    The only reason I can see that a xian prays is because he is commanded to, but that seems pointless.
  6. Joined
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    09 Sep '07 20:06
    Originally posted by telerion
    Which brings up the question "why pray for something at all?" God knew before he created the universe that you would want this thing. He knew whether he would answer yes or no. If God wanted it to happen it will, whether you pray or not. If God didn't want it to happen, it won't whether you pray or not.

    The only reason I can see that a xian prays is because he is commanded to, but that seems pointless.
    Think about it man!! Why did God create free will? Why not just give us what he knew we would want? Why even bother consulting with us at all? To a certain degree, because we have free will permission is needed for him to work in our lives. Why would he violate something he has freely given to us? There is an element of free will within the constructs of our faith. To a lesser degree he does provide for us things we never thought about asking for. For example, oxygen is a plus to have to breath. Loved ones are a plus to have in our lives. Food to eat can also come in handy at times as well as water to drink. There are also indications within scriputure that he interceedes for us in ways we never thought about asking for help that we need. I think it is limited to those things we know we need that he is awaiting permission to interceede.

    Another way of looking at it is why have interaction with someone that you love? What if you know what they like and desire and simply go ahead and give it to them without so much as having to say "boo" to them? In fact, you would'nt even have to talk to them at all!! Would'nt that be nice?
  7. Joined
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    11 Sep '07 06:37
    I don't believe prayer has as much to do with asking for favors as it does with communicating with Him; the means and end are one in the same. If you use the Our Father (The Lord's Prayer) as a model, it's theme is that of praise (hallowed be thy name), submission (thy will be done, asking for our most basic needs (give us our daily bread), and personal betterment (forgive us our trespasses AS WE FORGIVE THOSE WHO TRESPASS AGAINST US). Establishing a relationship, I feel, is more important than securing our desires.
  8. Joined
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    11 Sep '07 07:50
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    if a believer is going through a bad time god is testing them, if they ask and don't receive god is teaching them, if they do ask and receive god is wonderful....

    god has a good deal with this wouldnt you say?
    You have it backwards. In Christ we cannot lose.

    In the sphere and realm of Jesus Christ we ... cannot ... lose.
  9. Joined
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    12 Sep '07 12:06
    Originally posted by eatmybishop
    if a believer is going through a bad time god is testing them, if they ask and don't receive god is teaching them, if they do ask and receive god is wonderful....

    god has a good deal with this wouldnt you say?
    Of course....he's God !!!
  10. Joined
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    12 Sep '07 12:47
    God cannot change the laws of the universe. Prayer does not change a thing, except making you feel a lot better IF you believe in it. But is doesn't change a thing.
    People must realize this: there are about 6 billion Gods, only in planet Earth, and each one of them has the power to decide it's own fate. (within the limits of the laws of physics). Instead of praying, open your eyes and do something useful to yourself and the ones you care.
  11. Subscribermdhall
    Mr Palomar
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    12 Sep '07 13:06
    Aristotle's proof of a Prime Mover (Nicomachean Ethics) was able to show that there necessarily was a 1st Actor to get this linear existence going. That's about all that can really be proven.

    The concept of a god that inserts itself into the linear thread of Human existence is unstable from a philosophical (logical) stance.
    Even theologists don't often popularize the concept since they have to work closely with philosophers.

    You mostly find that concept popular among the unwashed masses who want an excuse for everything that happens to them. They use "God" as a very convenient deus ex machina for everything. Almost like there is a repulsion to taking responsibility for ones own life and actions within it.
  12. Cape Town
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    12 Sep '07 14:17
    Originally posted by mdhall
    Aristotle's proof of a Prime Mover (Nicomachean Ethics) was able to show that there necessarily was a 1st Actor to get this linear existence going. That's about all that can really be proven.
    And one mustn't forget that any such 'proof' was based on certain unproved axioms which were little more than assumptions.
  13. Subscribermdhall
    Mr Palomar
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    12 Sep '07 14:25
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    And one mustn't forget that any such 'proof' was based on certain unproved axioms which were little more than assumptions.
    Bwahahahahaaaaaa lol

    Thank you sir. You got the first laugh of the day. Aristotle's work = assumptions... That is funny. Wow.
  14. Standard memberClimacus
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    12 Sep '07 14:28
    Originally posted by mdhall
    Bwahahahahaaaaaa lol

    Thank you sir. You got the first laugh of the day. Aristotle's work = assumptions... That is funny. Wow.
    Well, it is a bit new-age obscurantistic to say that Aristotle got it right. And the concept of the Prime Mover is elaborated in Metaphysica, by the way.
  15. Cape Town
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    12 Sep '07 14:32
    Originally posted by mdhall
    Thank you sir. You got the first laugh of the day. Aristotle's work = assumptions... That is funny. Wow.
    Would you care to elaborate? Your post implied that somebody had proved that there exists something called a 'prime mover'. I dispute that anyone in the history of man has ever completed such a proof without making some pretty big assumptions.
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