Is it possible that there could be a genuine practical local church today continuing what was started in "the church in Jerusalem" or is it impossible for Christians to church today in any regard except in division, as a denomination?
Your local church is not a good match for the early church.
Eg someone like me will not be allowed in Witness Lees local church, but I would be welcomed in one of the the early churches.
@suziannesaid You insisted that I might have a need to "bang the pulpit", and I asked you if Jesus had a need to "bang the pulpit" about the end of those found wanting at Judgement.
He did not, and so I do not. He found it easier and more effective to merely talk with people and influence them in other ways in the way they should go. He wasn't about scare tactics and neither am I.
This was my point, not who started with the phrase "bang the pulpit".
Well seeing as I don’t believe in any sort of damnation as it was all dealt with at Calvary, then I am not likely to subscribe to the idea of Jesus believing in it and therefore feeling the need to “bang the pulpit” about it. **
You however do believe in damnation, and my point therefore was that you should probably feeling the need to “bang the pulpit” rather than agreeing with the OP.
Makes sense now?
** I’ll put a small caveat in here in that Jesus pre Calvary teaching might have included some measure of judgment as it was indeed pre Calvary. But you won’t find it in what he said post Calvary.
@divegeestersaid Well seeing as I don’t believe in any sort of damnation as it was all dealt with at Calvary, then I am not likely to subscribe to the idea of Jesus believing in it and therefore feeling the need to “bang the pulpit” about it. **
You however do believe in damnation, and my point therefore was that you should probably feeling the need to “bang the pulpit” rather than agr ...[text shortened]... easure of judgment as it was indeed pre Calvary. But you won’t find it in what he said post Calvary.
Quite a bit of the teachings of Jesus included what will transpire long after his death and resurrection. The judgment day scenario in Matt 25 where the goats are condemned for failure to do good works. Its all over the teachings of Christ. After resurrection and just prior to the ascension Jesus said
Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.(Mark 16:14-20 KJV)
Eternal life and damnation.... two essential elements of the entire bible teaching
@divegeestersaid You are indeed being evasive, but at least you acknowledge it!
As a Christian, surely you are aware of the doctrine of eternal suffering because your OP calls for less pulpit bashing about it.
If you are “not the one to ask about it”, then why do you feel so strongly that you want other preachers to dial down their sermons about it?
Furthermore, why not address s ...[text shortened]... esus will be overseeing the the fire and brimstone and the casting in of billions of non Christians?
As a Christian, surely you are aware of the doctrine of eternal suffering because your OP calls for less pulpit bashing about it.
This is incorrect, my OP calls for a softer approach in they way one introduces non believers to the message of Christ, and the sacrifice he made on our behalf, I didn't bring up the book of Revelation once in my OP.
As for being evasive about answering questions about the book of Revelation, I have good reason to do so. As I said before, bible scholars have studied this book for centuries and are still struggling to uncover it's true meaning, so a layman like me can hardly be expected to answer questions about it.
This is incorrect, my OP calls for a softer approach in they way one introduces non believers to the message of Christ, and the sacrifice he made on our behalf, I didn't bring up the book of Revelation once in my OP.
Now you are being disingenuous as well as evasive.
You mention “eternal torture” in your OP first paragraph and you mention “eternal damnation” and “fire and brimstone” in your last paragraph.
Are you expecting me to believe that these phrases didn’t come from the context of the book of Revelation?
@mchillsaid.
This is incorrect, my OP calls for a softer approach in they way one introduces non believers to the message of Christ, and the sacrifice he made on our behalf,
As for being evasive about answering questions about the book of Revelation, I have good reason to do so. As I said before, bible scholars have studied this book for centuries and are still struggling to uncover it's true meaning, so a layman like me can hardly be expected to answer questions about it.
What is this “softer approach” then which doesn’t involve toning down “eternal damnation” and “eternal torture”, which you talk about in your OP?
@mchillsaid As for being evasive about answering questions about the book of Revelation, I have good reason to do so. As I said before, bible scholars have studied this book for centuries and are still struggling to uncover it's true meaning, so a layman like me can hardly be expected to answer questions about it.
I’m afraid this blinky-eyed faux naivety about what the book of Revelation contains won’t wash with me. It smacks of utter dishonesty.
Is it possible that there could be a genuine practical local church today continuing what was started in "the church in Jerusalem" or is it impossible for Christians to church today in any regard except in division, as a denomination?
Yes - it could be possible.
No - it is impossible
I have no idea.
Possibly.
Certainly not yours.
Edit: oh sorry, did you think that was a tough question?
@divegeestersaid I’m afraid this blinky-eyed faux naivety about what the book of Revelation contains won’t wash with me. It smacks of utter dishonesty.
Utter dishonesty?
What was I being dishonest about? There are multiple theory's scholars give about what Revelation really tells us, and you expect me to give you the final word on it? That's pretty unrealistic, don't you think?
@divegeestersaid What is this “softer approach” then which doesn’t involve toning down “eternal damnation” and “eternal torture”, which you talk about in your OP?
Please go back and read my original post. Did I once bring up damnation or eternal torture? No. You are the one who seems desperate to keep that alive.
What was I being dishonest about? There are multiple theory's scholars give about what Revelation really tells us, and you expect me to give you the final word on it? That's pretty unrealistic, don't you think?
Cut it out mchill, your pretence is toe curling.
No one is asking for you to give “the final word”, pretending you don’t know what it’s about and yet talking about the content in your OP, dear me.
My parents were atheists, both having grown up in strict Christian households. For them, the message of Christianity was not that of a loving God who sent his own son to suffer and die as just and final punishment for the sins of all, but that of a judgmental God who'll condemn them to eternal torture if they step out of line. No one mentioned the word "God" in our house, and I was largely ignorant of the subject.
I came to be a Christian in a far less confrontational way. Many people in our high school track team belonged to an off campus Christian group, after reluctantly agreeing to attend, I was pleasantly surprised at what I experienced. We sang a few light hearted Christian songs, the theme of which was kindness and accepting of others as God is accepting of us. Afterward we ate a few cookies, chatted for about 30 min. and that was all - - but it was more than enough to kindle my interest. In the years that followed I purchased a bible, attended church on an intermittent basis, and asked lots of questions. That's all it took.
Christians' - I admire your willingness to spread the word far and wide, but please be careful how you do it. There's a vast difference between introducing one to the concept of Christianity, and pushing it at them too hard, just as there is a vast difference between obeying God's law because you want to, and obeying it because you fear eternal damnation. Jesus taught the masses in a non - confrontational way, using a combination of plain language and parables, and let them decide the issue for themselves. No roaring sermons, no fire and brimstone, no pounding the pulpit - - and it worked!
04 Jan '22 14:17
You don't need to pound the pulpit
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