Your Purpose in Life

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
I see no better explanation than God. Do you have a better explanation?

It's not clear to me that there are universal moral laws. Even if there are one can imagine some sort of theory of morality based around natural rights contingent on what humans are like. This type of moral theory is contingent on the nature of humans, which may make it non-universal, but would not of itself require a creator.

Originally posted by DeepThought
It's not clear to me that there are universal moral laws. Even if there are one can imagine some sort of theory of morality based around natural rights contingent on what humans are like. This type of moral theory is contingent on the nature of humans, which may make it non-universal, but would not of itself require a creator.

According to your world view a creator is not necessary, according to mine it is essential.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
The last time I asked you something similar to this you told me to go back and look for the answer in the 10s of thousands of posts in your posting history.

You asked me if I wanted to talk in detail about the loss of my Christian faith and I declined. I said you could look at my posting history if your curiosity was genuine, but I was not interested in typing a load of stuff about what I believed in past decades all over again. As for Fetchmyjunk: "So what replaced your Christian beliefs? Do you now believe all religions are true? Are none of them true? If Christianity was previously 'truth' to you, what do you now regards as 'truth'? Nothing?" I have no choice but to conclude that you are just taking the piss.

Originally posted by FMF
You asked me if I wanted to talk in detail about the loss of my Christian faith and I declined. I said you could look at my posting history if your curiosity was genuine, but I was not interested in typing a load of stuff about what I believed in past decades all over again. As for [b]Fetchmyjunk: "So what replaced your Christian beliefs? Do you now believe all ...[text shortened]... ds as 'truth'? Nothing?" I have no choice but to conclude that you are just taking the piss.[/b]

And I have no choice but to believe you either can't or won't answer the questions.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
And I have no choice but to believe you either can't or won't answer the questions.

I already did. As you well know. There is a distinct streak of dishonesty in your act.

Originally posted by FMF
I already did. As you well know. There is a distinct streak of dishonesty in your act.

There I was thinking there was more to your beliefs than a gut feeling.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
According to your world view a creator is not necessary, according to mine it is essential.

There is a regress problem, if a creator is essential why does the creator not require a creator. If a creator is not essential for the creator, then why is a creator essential for everything else? Quis fabricat fabricator?

Originally posted by DeepThought
There is a regress problem, if a creator is essential why does the creator not require a creator. If a creator is not essential for the creator, then why is a creator essential for everything else? Quis fabricat fabricator?

Everything that has a beginning requires a cause, God is infinite and requires no cause.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Everything that has a beginning requires a cause, God is infinite and requires no cause.

I don't agree with the first clause. The second clause is also problematic. I suggest we transfer this discussion to your "Does God exist?" thread as it makes more sense there.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So no one knows the actual truth?

People think they know. You can say no more than that. (Especially in regards to God).

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
People think they know. You can say no more than that. (Especially in regards to God).

I can say I know. I may be wrong, and in fact not know. But I can say it, and mean it.
And God has no special property that makes knowledge about him special - other than the vagueness of the word. If we restrict ourselves to a particular description of God then I can typically be more sure that he doesn't exist than I am sure that Jupiter's moon Europa exists, and I have significant evidence for the later.
I would bet my life that the moon exists and that God under most Christian definitions I am familiar with does not exist. There are of course other definitions of God that merely equate the word to 'the universe'.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
People think they know. You can say no more than that. (Especially in regards to God).

And what you just said with regard to God, is it true or do you only think you know?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
And what you just said with regard to God, is it true or do you only think you know?

My brain thinks. All I can offer you is thoughts.

It's you who speaks of truth, even when that truth is beyond your finite comprehension.

Originally posted by twhitehead
I can say I know. I may be wrong, and in fact not know. But I can say it, and mean it.
And God has no special property that makes knowledge about him special - other than the vagueness of the word. If we restrict ourselves to a particular description of God then I can typically be more sure that he doesn't exist than I am sure that Jupiter's moon Europa ...[text shortened]... ist. There are of course other definitions of God that merely equate the word to 'the universe'.

Merely a play on words.

When I said 'you can say no more than that' I meant 'you can go no further than that.' (Not that you literally couldn't say it or mean it). Still doesn't change the fact that thinking something doesn't make it true, even if you are convinced by it.

And the reason i said 'especially in regards to God' was to differentiate from the more simplistic examples Fetchmyjunk always provides in these situations.(For example, that he 'knows' the car exists on his driveway etc). Making truth claims about the vague concept of God is a different kettle of fish than the existence of a motor vehicle he isn't yet old enough to drive.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Merely a play on words.

When I said 'you can say no more than that' I meant 'you can go no further than that.' (Not that you literally couldn't say it or mean it). Still doesn't change the fact that thinking something doesn't make it true, even if you are convinced by it.

I agree that saying something doesn't instantiate truth. But to say 'you can go no further than that' with regards to peoples thoughts implies that we cannot be sure of our thoughts. I disagree.

And the reason i said 'especially in regards to God' was to differentiate from the more simplistic examples Fetchmyjunk always provides in these situations.(For example, that he 'knows' the car exists on his driveway etc). Making truth claims about the vague concept of God is a different kettle of fish than the existence of a motor vehicle he isn't yet old enough to drive.
But FMJ and many others have rather specific definitions of God that are not that much different from cars in terms of specificity.