Zoroaster-Judaism

@caissad4 said
Where in my OP did I claim that Jews became polytheistic ?? Where did I claim that Jewish monotheism comes from Zoroastrianism ??
Your reply is not relevant to the OP.

I'm not aware of any core belief changes between pre-exile Judaism and post-exile Judaism. The Torah, which is the core belief system of the Jews, was written between (depending on your sources) 700 and 1000 years before the Babylonian Exile. Prophets such as Daniel were central in maintaining the faith while in exile. Any 'bleed-over' from Zoroastrianism to Judaism must have occurred far earlier, before the Jewish laws were codified in the Torah. A similarity in the beliefs of the two religions doesn't even really act as proof that one influenced the other, and even if it is likely, the direction of the 'bleed-over' could have been either way. Zoroaster lived much later, and most of the surviving texts of Zoroastrianism are his writings, and many sources do not even agree on when he lived, so yes, more research is required to come to a more full understanding on the relationship between the two religions.

@caissad4 said
Yes. Consider yourself corrected.

It's curious how vaingloriously oblivious sonship can be about other members of this community even after 10+ years.

@Suzianne

Even though I fail to see how she differentiates the Zoroastrian "imaginary sky god" from the Jewish "imaginary sky god", I did not feel her OP to be a "let down" at all. It's a valid topic for discussion here.

"Imaginary sky god" ... hmmm.

That must be why in Exodus Yawheh said that they should not make an image of Him of ANYTHING that was in the sky.

Exodus 20:4

New American Standard Bible
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth.

King James Bible
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:

HMMMMM! Yawheh the imaginary sky god. Hmmmm.

I guess that is why King Solomon said heaven itself could not contain God. Right, Why because He was the sky god.

Darby
But will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold, the heavens, and the heaven of heavens, cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built!
(1 Kings 8:27)

The oldest book in the Bible Job says the suffering wiseman Job could see or find God anywhere, not up in the sky.

But God is the imaginary sky god says the poster.

Well, let's be fair. In Exodus it does say God came down upon Mount Sinai in a dramatic way before over a million people probably, to give Moses the Law.

That was an extraordinary event. Is that why we have the criticism of "sky god" ? That one special event ?

God who transcends time and space, on a couple of occasions penetrated our realm of time and space to manifest His dramatic glory. The concept that the Israelites always expected God to be just beyond the clouds is doubtful.

We usually imagine that people could not be sophisticated 2000 years ago. They knew that God was in some sense, maybe EVERY sense "HIGHER" then men on earth.

Ask caissad4 if dirt evolving into a THINKING soul is more believable. Thought coming from non-living material by random lucky accidents.

Ask her if that is preferable to an alleged "sky god" hard to fully substantiate in the Hebrew Bible.

@fmf said
You don't seem to have understood the exchange.

I was talking to SecondSon, a Christian. He described the Jews as believing in "the one true God".

This surely is not a Christian view.

The Jews rejected Jesus as bogus and an imposter. Therefore, they rejected "the one true God", according to Christian beliefs, didn't they?

They didn't even think Jesus was sent by "the one true God" in the way the Muslims believe he was.

I don't need to "understand the exchange" to see that you are wrong.

Jewish belief is one thing, and Christian belief is another, only as regards the revelation and divinity of Jesus. He was referring the the Jewish idea of "the one true God". Christian belief on that is similar, only with additions regarding Jesus, which yes, the Jews rejected. But this does not affect Jewish belief in "the one true God", which the early Christians, being Jews, also believed. Rejection or adoption of Jesus as deity simply doesn't enter into the idea of "the one true God". You've been listening to divegeester too much, if you believe the Christian God and the Jewish God are different. Christians have a different idea of God than the Jews only because they believe the further revelation of God through Jesus. It certainly does not change the Jewish idea of "the one true God" into something else, just because one might be Christian.

You can't just 'rubber-stamp' it as "the Jewish God is the God of Abraham, while the Christian God is Jesus". There's a LOT more to it than that. In the meantime, I would not have a problem with a Christian saying that the "God of Abraham" is "the one true God", because I believe that as well. I also believe that includes Jesus, while the Jews do not, that's all. So in no way did the Jews reject "the one true God". That's ridiculous.

@sonship said
@Suzianne

Even though I fail to see how she differentiates the Zoroastrian "imaginary sky god" from the Jewish "imaginary sky god", I did not feel her OP to be a "let down" at all. It's a valid topic for discussion here.

"Imaginary sky god" ... hmmm.

That must be why in Exodus Yawheh said that they should not make an image of Him of ANYTHING that ...[text shortened]... her if that is preferable to an alleged "sky god" hard to fully substantiate in the Hebrew Bible.

Look, "imaginary sky god" was not my phrase, it was hers. No need to beat me over it.

Regardless, it's still a valid topic for discussion.

@caissad4

Yes. Consider yourself corrected.

Corrected I am.
I've been waiting for more women to participate here for a long time.

Now, to the matter of imaginary superstition:

Dirt evolving into a THINKING life who contemplates self and meaning and morals - less superstitious then the imaginary sky god ?

You know, the one who commanded no image of anything in heaven or earth be made of God.

@Suzianne

Look, "imaginary sky god" was not my phrase, it was hers. No need to beat me over it.

Sorry, I was not beating up on you.

I guess I should catch up with the rest of the Internet community and use those little graphic emotional expression thingies.

Old fashion here.

@suzianne said
Rejection or adoption of Jesus as deity simply doesn't enter into the idea of "the one true God". You've been listening to divegeester too much, if you believe the Christian God and the Jewish God are different. Christians have a different idea of God than the Jews only because they believe the further revelation of God through Jesus. It certainly does not change the Jewish idea of "the one true God" into something else, just because one might be Christian.

What they see as the Christians' error over identity of Jesus has not affected Muslims' belief in what they see as "the one true God".

Do you perceive the Muslim Abrahamic God and the Jewish Abrahamic God differently? Surely the Islamic adoption of Jesus as the prophet who will return at the end times sets it apart from Judaism?

Rejection or adoption of Jesus as deity simply doesn't enter into the idea of "the one true God".

Are you sure?

@sonship said
@caissad4

Yes. Consider yourself corrected.

Corrected I am.
I've been waiting for more women to participate here for a long time.

Now, to the matter of imaginary superstition:

Dirt evolving into a THINKING life who contemplates self and meaning and morals - less superstitious then the imaginary sky god ?

You know, the one who commanded no image of anything in heaven or earth be made of God.

"Superstition" is belief in supernatural causality. In what way do you think cassaid4 believes in supernatural causality?

@sonship said
@Suzianne

Is ciassad4 a female ?

Even if one had no idea who @caissad4 was, one would certainly call her "she", as Caissa was the "goddess of chess" as portrayed by the Italian poet Hieronymus Vida. Just as one might assume I am female through my name, so should one assume she is female through hers.

Even though some have said that "there are no women on the internet", I find that the minimum of respect is to call people as they wish to be called.

@fmf said
What they see as the Christians' error over identity of Jesus has not affected Muslims' belief in what they see as "the one true God".

Do you perceive the Muslim Abrahamic God and the Jewish Abrahamic God differently? Surely the Islamic adoption of Jesus as the prophet who will return at the end times sets it apart from Judaism?

Rejection or adoption of Jesus as deity simply doesn't enter into the idea of "the one true God".

Are you sure?

Yes, I am sure.

The Hebrews have called their God "the one true God" for millennia.

The Christian God is the same God, just as the God of Islam is the same God.

Same exact God, even though we describe him differently. "The God of Abraham".

Jesus is only a further revelation of the nature of God.

@suzianne said
Same exact God, even though we describe him differently. "The God of Abraham".

Jesus is only a further revelation of the nature of God.

And what do you believe the "same exact... God of Abraham" will do with Jews and Muslims when they die?

@Suzianne

Even if one had no idea who @caissad4 was, one would certainly call her "she", as Caissa was the "goddess of chess" as portrayed by the Italian poet Hieronymus Vida. Just as one might assume I am female through my name, so should one assume she is female through hers.

Hey, Emily Dickinson I know of.
Italian poet Hieronymus Vida ?

Not familiar at all.

Even though some have said that "there are no women on the internet", I find that the minimum of respect is to call people as they wish to be called.

For some reason I couldn't pick up on the sex just by "caissad4".

@sonship said
@Suzianne

Even if one had no idea who @caissad4 was, one would certainly call her "she", as Caissa was the "goddess of chess" as portrayed by the Italian poet Hieronymus Vida. Just as one might assume I am female through my name, so should one assume she is female through hers.

Hey, Emily Dickinson I know of.
Italian poet Hieronymus Vida ?

Not fa ...[text shortened]... wish to be called. [/quote]

For some reason I couldn't pick up on the sex just by "caissad4".

I'm sorry, I just thought more people were familiar with Caissa as "the goddess of chess".

@FMF

"Superstition" is belief in supernatural causality. In what way do you think cassaid4 believes in supernatural causality?

My experience is that most people who make cracks like "Spaghetti Monster" or "imaginare sky god" or "Invisible Pink Unicorn" in their attempts to belittle theists are superstitious about their own Scientism.

What is more miraculous then macro evolution ?

What could be more supernatural then material accidently giving rise to the ability to THINK ?