Originally posted by Red NightHow about submarine pitchers? I forget his name, but the Sox had one guy who's knuckles have hit the ground when he delivers.
Good point P.
also, a number of pitchers use multiple arm angles. David cone comes to mind.
So a guy might throw a curve ball from 2-5 different release points.
And P and I aren't lieing to you. These guys are trying to hit a very small target.
How do you know what his curve or slider is going to do? Is it all 'sideways' from perspective of a catcher?
Many of these pitchers are just short work, as they are not that great and once a batter catches on the pitcher is toast.
P-
Originally posted by PhlabibitChad Bradford?
How about submarine pitchers? I forget his name, but the Sox had one guy who's knuckles have hit the ground when he delivers.
How do you know what his curve or slider is going to do? Is it all 'sideways' from perspective of a catcher?
Many of these pitchers are just short work, as they are not that great and once a batter catches on the pitcher is toast.
P-
Originally posted by PhlabibitOh sure. I was never a professional sportsman, so I never reached top level in cricket and definately not a very high level of baseball.
You can't compare the 2 until you come to realize there was more to pitching than what you did in HS outside of the US. but I don't think you understand how hard it really is, or what really goes on.
The only person who could ever really comment accurately on this is someone who played both sports at a very high level - which is not likely to happen.
Let me just say this: The TOP bowlers in the world, professionals who do it for a living every day, can't even hit the target (which is larger than baseball) with every ball.
Originally posted by CrowleySuggesting it's harder, no? 🙂
Let me just say this: The TOP bowlers in the world, professionals who do it for a living every day, can't even hit the target (which is larger than baseball) with every ball.
Being serious, it is worth saying that cricket bowlers aren't always aiming at the "target". They may be aiming at the body, they may be trying to tempt the batsman into a risky shot.
(Or, in Steve Harmison's case at the moment, they may just be all over the place)
Originally posted by Red NightIn his time, that was probably true.
[b]"cricket could learn a lot from baseball. There is more snap and dash to baseball"
Don Bradman[/b]
Lots of older players/commentators like to go on about how batsmen and bowlers used to be better than they are nowadays. I'm a bit skeptical myself, but they may be right. But no-one would dispute that cricket fielding is far superior to what it used to be. That's where those imported baseball coaches you mentioned have had an impact.
Now it is pitching v bowling
The pitcher with the curve ball, knuckballs and whatever else is basically trying to get the ball to move in the air to deceive the hitter.
A bowler will be doing exactly the same trying to induce swing as well keeping the seem upright so as to get movement off the pitch.
These skills are probably equally difficult to master.
The pitcher is trying to hit an area the size of a coffee cup.
The bowler in general will be trying to hit an area about a square foot just outside the batters off stump. He may also be aiming for cracks or rough. The bowler though is slightly further away.
Again these skills are probably equally difficult to master.
Now a pitcher uses a bent arm to throw the ball where as the bowler has to have a straight arm in delivery which is more difficult. TRY IT, take RN's fabled tennis ball and give it a go in the back garden. To put it another way most people find throwing far easier than bowling.
This at the end of the day will make bowling TECHNICALLY more difficult.
Freddie F for example would find the action of pitching fairly easy to get the hang of (he would get sent to all corners no about about that). However if you took a pitcher and said bowl, he would no doubt really struggle if he had never done it before. That is not to say he would not be able to do it after some training.
Amen
Ps. A similar set of arguments can be applied to batting v hitting but if you do not see this argument above then you ain't going to get the batting v hitting one.
Pps. I actually like watching baseball
Originally posted by mtthwRN mentioned the import of BB coaches in a batting v hitting argument implying that they were used to help with batsmen.
In his time, that was probably true.
Lots of older players/commentators like to go on about how batsmen and bowlers used to be better than they are nowadays. I'm a bit skeptical myself, but they may be right. But no-one would dispute that cricket fielding is far superior to what it used to be. That's where those imported baseball coaches you mentioned have had an impact.
RN - Just so you can find that without having to look to hard see page 18.
I personally more than welcome the BB coaches if they are going to improve the game.
The only way I see cricket coaches going to BB is if there is an exceptional fielding coach.
Originally posted by dan182It's not quite the same. A cricket bowler doesn't swerve the ball in the same way that a pitcher does. In cricket seam position is everything - it causes the swing as well as getting movement off the pitch. A pitcher has to induce rotation to get it to swerve - possibly more in common with a spin bowler.
Now it is pitching v bowling
The pitcher with the curve ball, knuckballs and whatever else is basically trying to get the ball to move in the air to deceive the hitter.
A bowler will be doing exactly the same trying to induce swing as well keeping the seem upright so as to get movement off the pitch.
These skills are probably equally difficult to master.
Originally posted by mtthwI am sure it is not the same, however my point was that those skills would be equally hard to master. Possibly the hardest of all of them is wrist spinning. I myself can bowl a leg breaker but it comes out the front of my hand - Every time I try a true leg break out the back of the hand it lands up on the roof of the nett.
It's not quite the same. A cricket bowler doesn't swerve the ball in the same way that a pitcher does. In cricket seam position is everything - it causes the swing as well as getting movement off the pitch. A pitcher has to induce rotation to get it to swerve - possibly more in common with a spin bowler.
Originally posted by mtthwNot true. A baseball has a pronounced seem with 182 stitches. Some pitches move because of air drag on the seams.
It's not quite the same. A cricket bowler doesn't swerve the ball in the same way that a pitcher does. In cricket seam position is everything - it causes the swing as well as getting movement off the pitch. A pitcher has to induce rotation to get it to swerve - possibly more in common with a spin bowler.
Originally posted by CrowleyShort of that we could look to guidance from the greatest cricketeer of all time, who it turns out was a big baseball fan. What did Sir Donald have to say on the matter:
The only person who could ever really comment accurately on this is someone who played both sports at a very high level -
.
"cricket could learn alot from baseball."
Don Bradman