Italian Football Violence

Originally posted by blade68
Like eatmybishop said... a lot of it is underground and happens away from football stadiums. so much of the violence cannot be reported as 'football violence'... it's just 2 gangs of blokes having a go.
As long as they don't involve innocent people they're welcome to do what they want as far as I'm concerned... did anyone see the documentary about the Polis their hands at the end of the night?

Blokes will be blokes... that will never change.

yeah, i agree with that... it doesnt go on as much as it did... but it still goes on... at least now you can go to a football match, take you kid with you and know you're pretty much safe... never used to be like that... i think now the trouble has just been moved to somewhere else apart from inside the ground.... maybe its still as big i dont know... like someone said, the press never report it.... i think everyone should be allowed to go to a match and get out again still in one piece.... you just cant have a fight inside a ground anymore anyway, cctv, banned for life... its all i.d. and big brother... i guess a lot of people would say they've never the fun out of "having a go at the other supporters..."

Originally posted by Palynka
Crap music.

🙄

Originally posted by blade68
Like eatmybishop said... a lot of it is underground and happens away from football stadiums. so much of the violence cannot be reported as 'football violence'... it's just 2 gangs of blokes having a go.
As long as they don't involve innocent people they're welcome to do what they want as far as I'm concerned... did anyone see the documentary about the Polis ...[text shortened]... their hands at the end of the night?

Blokes will be blokes... that will never change.

Football is the catalyst for people forming into groups and fighting. Why don't you ever see fighting after rugby or cricket or gaelic football.

I find football hooliganism to be hilarious. It's always gangs of people beating on 1 guy. And they get braver still if they beating on an unconscious guy on the ground. Then maybe they might go 1 on 1. Cowardice and insecurities are at the root of a lot of hooliganism.

Of course they involve innocent people. Gang of Millwall "fans" out side a pub, and somebody wearing another jersey walks by, he's going to get clobbered by a few guys. I've seen this on TV, moments after Millwall hooligans said that they only fight other gangs.

I don't agree that blokes will always want to fight. I've never seen big fights after GAA matches in Ireland. I've never seen fighting at an Irish wedding. Its a funny thing, the English and Irish drink about the same amount, but the result is very different. The Irish want to have the craic, a lot of the English get aggressive.

You can't excuse mindless hooliganism and put it down to "blokes will be blokes".

It isn't as bad as it was, but is still there.
2004: YouTube
2004: YouTube (note the number of times people get smacked while on the ground, 6 against 1, and blind sides. Total cowards)

D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
[b]Football is the catalyst for people forming into groups and fighting.

Sweeping statement...

I find football hooliganism to be hilarious.

Strange comment...

It's always gangs of people beating on 1 guy.

Always?

Cowardice and insecurities are at the root of a lot of hooliganism.

I don't disagree with that.

Of course they involve innocent people. Gang of Millwall "fans" out side a pub, and somebody wearing another jersey walks by, he's going to get clobbered by a few guys. I've seen this on TV, moments after Millwall hooligans said that they only fight other gangs.

Generally, football hooligans won't touch 'scarfers', but you will always find stories that are contrary.

I've never seen fighting at an Irish wedding.

Don't make me laugh!!! I've got Irish mates who were always getting in brawls when they were younger!

You can't excuse mindless hooliganism and put it down to "blokes will be blokes".

No, you're right. However, history tells us that men have wanted to pit their strength against other men physically, since God was a lad!

Originally posted by blade68
Originally posted by Ragnorak
[b]Football is the catalyst for people forming into groups and fighting.

Sweeping statement...

I find football hooliganism to be hilarious.

Strange comment...

It's always gangs of people beating on 1 guy.

Always?

Cowardice and insecurities are at the root of a lot of hooliganism.

I don't disagr wanted to pit their strength against other men physically, since God was a lad![/b]

"Sweeping statement..."

How so? Do you maintain that football hooliganism isn't linked to football?

"I find football hooliganism to be hilarious. "

"Strange comment..."
I find it hilarious because hooligans think they're big, hard men, whereas that couldn't be further from the truth. I find the irony of it all hilarious.

"It's always gangs of people beating on 1 guy. "

"Always?"
Look at videos of football hooliganism... as soon as it gets to 1 on 1, they run away from each other to join a few other people to find a weaker target.

D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
"Sweeping statement..."

How so? Do you maintain that football hooliganism isn't linked to football?

"I find football hooliganism to be hilarious. "

"Strange comment..."
I find it hilarious because hooligans think they're big, hard men, whereas that couldn't be further from the truth. I find the irony of it all hilarious.

"It's always gangs o ...[text shortened]... run away from each other to join a few other people to find a weaker target.

D

I'm not been funny Rag. But if you're going to pass comments on issues and make statements like you're making, I think you should be better informed buddy.

You said football was a catalyst.... no it isn't. Football is used as an excuse.

Look at videos of football hooliganism... as soon as it gets to 1 on 1, they run away from each other to join a few other people to find a weaker target.

It's a mob mentality don't forget. If they wanted 1 on 1 (and they were any good) they'd get in a ring.

Please don't think I'm condoning violence which is linked to football, 'cos I'm not. I do however think that it's more of an inbred/male/territorial/wanting to belong issue than you appear to want to recognise.

Originally posted by blade68
I'm not been funny Rag. But if you're going to pass comments on issues and make statements like you're making, I think you should be better informed buddy.

You said football was a catalyst.... no it isn't. Football is used as an excuse.

I need to be better informed? You know nothing about me, so I don't know how you can make that statement.

You may want to look up the definition of a catalyst. Actually, here you are:
cat·a·lyst
n.
2. One that precipitates a process or event, especially without being involved in or changed by the consequences

Now, if you still maintain that football isn't the catalyst for people going out, getting pissed, forming rival groups based on teams, and fighting, then you must be completely in lala land.

I don't know if its just poor command of English, but I've never heard somebody use football as an excuse for going out looking for fights. It just doesn't make sense.

D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
Its a funny thing, the English and Irish drink about the same amount, but the result is very different. The Irish want to have the craic, a lot of the English get aggressive.


D

I lived in Ireland and saw more drunken fighting there in two weeks than in thirty years anywhere else put together. I've never seen a pub fight in England, not in ten years of going out. Galway's Eyre Square on a Friday and Saturday night is a boxing ring.

Also note that episode of the Simpsons when they parody the Irish, the drunken St Patrick's Day march. I don't believe they poke fun at the English in the same way. What's all that about?

No offence intended.

Originally posted by Ragnorak
I don't know if its just poor command of English, but I've never heard somebody use football as an excuse for going out looking for fights. It just doesn't make sense.

Of course you'll never hear anyone use it as an excuse verbally, but it is an excuse to their own consciousness. They feel legitimated by having a reason (no matter how shallow) to beat someone up.

Football is used as an unconscious catharsis of daily frustration by many people. In some of them this catharsis leads to violence. In that sense, football is a catalyst via the fact it is an excuse.

I'm bored of this now...

😴

ragnorac, you're so naive to football hooliganism it's beyond belief; it would appear you've made up your shallow belief and that's that. though some will only join in if they're being backed up, i've seen many a supporter go in alone against 5, 6, 7 or more blokes... you call that a coward..? its far deeper than you care or what to believe... for some, their club represents their history, home, surroundings, belief, lifestyle, life...for them it is their religion, they will give their life to defend what is theirs... some would call that crazy, but at martin luther king once said, "if a man has no found something worth dying for, he is not fit to live"; you cannot simply put them all in a convenient pot and label it cowards and insurcurities

Originally posted by eatmybishop
ragnorac, you're so naive to football hooliganism it's beyond belief; it would appear you've made up your shallow belief and that's that. though some will only join in if they're being backed up, i've seen many a supporter go in alone against 5, 6, 7 or more blokes... you call that a coward..? its far deeper than you care or what to believe... for some, ...[text shortened]... ou cannot simply put them all in a convenient pot and label it cowards and insurcurities

Well, I chose to think of football hooligans who are "hard" men when with a hundred other "hard" men as cowards with major insecurities. You can view them as great men, the equivalent of Martin Luther King, if you so wish. Rather bizarre way of viewing things, but everybody is entitled to an opinion.

Why don't these great men of yours join boxing clubs? Or take up kickboxing or something organised and in a controlled environment? I guess the one on one element of that doesn't suit them.

You're telling me that the Milwall fans that I saw leave the ground with 15 minutes to go in a vital end of season game, while their team were 2-1 down (Milwall scored while the hooligans were getting organised outside) are true football fans as you make out? 🙄

The hooligans who forced the end of the Ireland - England game a few years back are also true football fans of course, who would go to any lengths to preserve the "good name" of their team. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ntc0kgshzYk

And you call me naive? LOL.

D

Originally posted by Ragnorak
Football is the catalyst for people forming into groups and fighting. Why don't you ever see fighting after rugby or cricket or gaelic football.

It's a bit of an eay answer (and one I don't particularly like), but I think that's at least partly a class thing. Cricket and rugby are (in most parts of the country) middle class sports, whereas football is more working class (and football becoming more middle class has coincided with the decline in football violence).

I don't know enough about Gaelic football to comment on that. (Isn't the violence on the pitch there?🙂)

Originally posted by Ragnorak
Well, I chose to think of football hooligans who are "hard" men when with a hundred other "hard" men as cowards with major insecurities. You can view them as great men, the equivalent of Martin Luther King, if you so wish. Rather bizarre way of viewing things, but everybody is entitled to an opinion.

Why don't these great men of yours join boxing clubs ...[text shortened]... heir team. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ntc0kgshzYk

And you call me naive? LOL.

D

you mistake me ragnorak, i dont agree with it, i hate everything about it, i want to go to a football match and watch football, not someone get their head kicked like a football... it is wrong though to say they are cowards with insecurities, a lot of them enjoy a fight if the truth be told and are loyal supporters as well, they simply combine the two, that is why so much of it still goes on, that's why i said it goes so much deeper, it all operates underground now, and many fights are now organise, in fact many fights are organised one on one situations, with - maybe - the toughest from one group against the toughest from the other... no ref, no time outs... no let up... that is not a cowards way of fighting