Originally posted by uzless How is any of that different than what he would have expierienced on a daily basis anyway?
He had to endure all of that crap from white people EVERY day anyway. He lived as any black man that had to deal with white folks, except he also played baseball sometimes.
and despite all of that, he was a truly great baseball player and human being - and he endured all of that crap while many many white people were looking to use Robinson as an example of why blacks shouldn't be allowed to play - or to mix with whites in general
if he was a really bad player, then "blacks aren't talented enough"
if he couldn't handle the pressure, then "blacks aren't mentally tough enough"
if he lost his cool and got into a fight, then "blacks are too violent - too unstable"
who knows what would've happened had Robinson been anything less than the superstar and the class act that he turned out to be - maybe blacks would've gotten another chance a couple years later - maybe not.
Originally posted by Melanerpes and despite all of that, he was a truly great baseball player and human being - and he endured all of that crap while many many white people were looking to use Robinson as an example of why blacks shouldn't be allowed to play - or to mix with whites in general
if he was a really bad player, then "blacks aren't talented enough"
if he couldn't handle t ...[text shortened]... o be - maybe blacks would've gotten another chance a couple years later - maybe not.
MAYBE not?
You think that north americans would STILL tolerate racism today if jackie robinson hadn't played baseball?
You think that north americans would STILL tolerate racism today if jackie robinson hadn't played baseball?
It's likely that blacks would've been in the major leagues at some point, probably by the mid-50s, regardless of how well or poorly the Robinson experiment turned out
but the thing about history is that you can't go back in time, make a change, and then see how things would've played out -- there's a tendency to see history as following some sort of invisible script and everything would've turned out the same way in general even if some specific events were changed. But it's not really like that.
so - what if Robinson had gotten fed up with some racist heckler and got into a fight? -- probably nothing beyond an embarassing story in the next day's paper -- but maybe we're still to this day drinking from separate but unequal water fountains -- who really knows?
Originally posted by uzless Was thinking about how people say jackie broke the colour barrier. I don't think so. Here's why.
There were lots of black guys that wanted to play in the major leagues before him but weren't allowed. Jackie didn't one day just storm onto the field and say, "I"m playing and it's as simple as that!"
No, quite different actually. Jackie was ALLOWED to ...[text shortened]... ys that made the decision get?
To me, Rosa Parks is more hero than Jackie Robinson.
You're an idiot. But just for the sake of argument, I'll add my own bit of trivia to the thread:
Jackie Robinson was not the first black player in major league baseball.
Moses Fleetwood Walker played the 1884 season for the Toledo Blue Stockings of the American Association (which was a major league). This was before they had implemented the color barrier. That was 63 years before Jackie came along.
The strange thing is, today the African American player has viritually disappeared from baseball. It's all whites, Latinos and Asians. African Americans have focused more on baketball and football. You can analyze the reasons until the cows come home, but the fact remains.
Take the New York Yankees, for example. They have exactly 1/2 of an Afircan American player (Derek Jeter, who has a black father and white mother). Everyone else is either white, Latino or Asian.
When you think about how strong black players were in the 60s, from Hank Aaron to Willie Mays to Bob Gibson, etc., it's a pretty amazing turnabout.
Originally posted by spurs73 America is still a raciest country- please guys dont kid yourself.
Just look at all thr fuss you had electing a new prescend!
LOL; that's a funny analysis.
Maybe post the long list of black Prime Ministers you've had and we'll talk about how racist the US is for having race be discussed in the course of an election.
In fact, every objective measure of analysis point to the fact that race was a virtual non-factor in this year's election. What I mean by that is not that it wasn't disucssed. Of course it was. I mean that Obama was not hurt by the fact that he's black.
Originally posted by rwingett You're an idiot. But just for the sake of argument, I'll add my own bit of trivia to the thread:
Jackie Robinson was not the first black player in major league baseball.
Moses Fleetwood Walker played the 1884 season for the Toledo Blue Stockings of the American Association (which was a major league). This was before they had implemented the color barrier. That was 63 years before Jackie came along.
Pretty hard to break a barrier if there is no barrier wouldn't you say?
Originally posted by sh76 I mean that Obama was not hurt by the fact that he's black.
To be fair, you have no way of measuring the accuracy of your statement.
It is very possible that people in the US would have voted for Obama if he wasn't black. What people say in opinion polls can be very different than when they actually get in the ballot box.
Obama MAY have won bigger if he were not black. We'll never know.
Originally posted by uzless To be fair, you have no way of measuring the accuracy of your statement.
It is very possible that people in the US would have voted for Obama if he wasn't black. What people say in opinion polls can be very different than when they actually get in the ballot box.
Obama MAY have won bigger if he were not black. We'll never know.
Okay; I will amend my statement to that there is no evidence that he was hurt by his race. Of course he might have been elected if he were white also; in fact, he probably would have. My point is that he wasn't hurt by his race, not that he was helped by it (although, he might have been).
The phenomenon of "What people say in opinion polls can be very different than when they actually get in the ballot box" is known in the US as the "Bradley Effect," when applied to race.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_effect
To quote the great Nate Silver of fivethirtyeight.com on election night, "There is no evidence of the Bradley effect [in this race]. None"
Originally posted by uzless Pretty hard to break a barrier if there is no barrier wouldn't you say?
In other words, your point is irrelevant.
Try to keep up.
If you learned to read, you'd see I said that Walker played before the implementation of the color barrier. So, yes, Jackie did break the barrier, although he was not the first black to play in the major leagues.
Originally posted by sh76 Okay; I will amend my statement to that there is no evidence that he was hurt by his race. Of course he might have been elected if he were white also; in fact, he probably would have. My point is that he wasn't hurt by his race, not that he was helped by it (although, he might have been).
The phenomenon of "What people say in opinion polls can be very differ ...[text shortened]... .com on election night, "There is no evidence of the Bradley effect [in this race]. None"
I was thinking more in the Senate races. Had Obama been white, we'll never know if more people would have voted for DEM senators. Not having a majoirity in the Senate hurts obama.
Originally posted by rwingett If you learned to read, you'd see I said that Walker played before the implementation of the color barrier. So, yes, Jackie did break the barrier, although he was not the first black to play in the major leagues.
Well, if YOU learned to read, you'd see that this thread is not about who was the first black dude to play in the major leagues. It's about who was the first man to break the colour barrier.
jackie Robinson broke nothing!
19 Apr '09 14:08
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