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  1. Standard member ChessPraxis
    Cowboy From Hell
    03 May '12 05:48
    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/story/2012-05-02/junior-seau-dead-gunshot/54712488/1
  2. 03 May '12 06:10
    RIP
  3. Subscriber SmookieP
    Lead, Follow, or..
    03 May '12 07:40
    Originally posted by ChessPraxis
    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/story/2012-05-02/junior-seau-dead-gunshot/54712488/1
    Shot himself in the chest... former 'brief' Dolphin... may he finally find peace now.
  4. 03 May '12 12:12
    Originally posted by ChessPraxis
    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/story/2012-05-02/junior-seau-dead-gunshot/54712488/1
    SO sad! Such talent lost. Perhaps if he had decided instead to bury himself in community work or other positive distractions. RIP. May the Lord forgive him!
  5. 03 May '12 19:53
    Originally posted by scacchipazzo
    SO sad! Such talent lost. Perhaps if he had decided instead to bury himself in community work or other positive distractions. RIP. May the Lord forgive him!
    Perhaps if he did not have multiple head related injuries that inflict virtually all NFL players, he'd still be alive today.
  6. Subscriber shortcircuit
    The Energizer
    03 May '12 20:40
    Originally posted by quackquack
    Perhaps if he did not have multiple head related injuries that inflict virtually all NFL players, he'd still be alive today.
    To be truthful, there is no way anyone can say that, short of speculation.
    Dave Duerson is the only NFL suicide who contended this, and to my knowledge, the
    brain autopsy did not prove or disprove the contention.

    There are a multitude of ex-NFL players out there who did not commit suicide.
    Their bodies are badly brutalized, no doubt, but that was due to the mentality
    of the staffs to play with pain, etc.....

    Seau already had one questionable attempted suicide in 2010 where he drove off a cliff.
    Afterwards, he was cajoled into saying he had fallen asleep at the wheel.
    Perhaps he did or perhaps it was a failed attempt to take his life.
    No one seemed concerned enough at that time to have him evaluated.

    Until they can show that the depression he surely must have had was due totally to
    the head blows he received on the gridiron, this is nothing more than conjecture
    and speculation. Duerson's autopsy does not appear to support the claim.

    This was obviously premeditated based on the the chronology of the events leading
    up to the gunshot. He texted his ex wife and kids the day before, and supposedly,
    all of them responded in kind, which would rule out rejection.
    His girl friend had gone to work out at the gym, so he had the timing down pat.
    No one has mentioned whether there were any financial problems, or gambling
    problems that may have been weighing on him. He may have been unhappy with
    his girlfriend. Who knows? It could have been the loss of the limelight or the
    ability to play the game and he was just unhappy.

    I think it is way too premature to lump all former NFL players together in this. There
    are other sports where concussions happen regularly, hockey and rugby to name a couple.
  7. 04 May '12 03:18
    Originally posted by shortcircuit
    To be truthful, there is no way anyone can say that, short of speculation.
    Dave Duerson is the only NFL suicide who contended this, and to my knowledge, the
    brain autopsy did not prove or disprove the contention.

    There are a multitude of ex-NFL players out there who did not commit suicide.
    Their bodies are badly brutalized, no doubt, but that was ...[text shortened]... There
    are other sports where concussions happen regularly, hockey and rugby to name a couple.
    Very well said, Shortie! It is absurd to speculate about such serious matters and push further still towards girlifying a manly sport. There is evidence that steroid abuse may lead to violent behavior, but there is ample research on that. There indeed is no established link between head injuries and suicide. Troy Aikman and Steve Young would have offed themselves long ago.
  8. 04 May '12 12:56
    Although no one knows specifically if Seau would have had problems had he not had head trauma, we consisitently see people like Dureson and Seau who were considered good citizens to have head relalted injuries and then many post career problems leading to suicide. Saying it is a just a coincidence is the same argument cigarette companies made. They simply stated that people die from cancer who never smoke completely ignoring the tremendous increase in likelihood of a consequence from a dangerous behavior.

    The NFL is clearly afraid of the economic consequences of excessive trauma claims when it reacts harshly to the saints bounty scandal. This is the same NFL which completely buried other scandals without lawsuit potential like the Patriots Spygate scandal.

    I think that the potential consequences of this issue are bigger than the NFL. People will be more reluctant to play and watch football and I think it very possible that despite its tremendous popularity that high schools at some point will stop offereing football and parents will stop allowing their kids to play football and the great multisport athletes who choose something other than football. This will lead to the popularity of football to decrease. There was a time baseball was by far the most popular sport with boxing and horse racing perhaps next. I believe that the NFL needs to address this issue if it wants to remain on top.
  9. 04 May '12 13:05
    Originally posted by scacchipazzo
    Very well said, Shortie! It is absurd to speculate about such serious matters and push further still towards girlifying a manly sport. There is evidence that steroid abuse may lead to violent behavior, but there is ample research on that. There indeed is no established link between head injuries and suicide. Troy Aikman and Steve Young would have offed themselves long ago.
    It is simply not true that there is no evidence between brain injury and suicide. Here are just a few cases reported by a few sources.

    According to the NYT, a 2007 study conducted by the University of North Carolina's Center for the Study of Retired Athletes found that of the 595 retired N.F.L. players who recalled sustaining three or more concussions on the football field, 20.2 percent said they had been found to have depression. That is three times the rate of players who have not sustained concussions.

    According to wikipedia, Andre Waters is another hard hitting football player who ended up comitting suicide. His brain tissue had degenerated into that of an 85-year-old man with similar characteristics to those of early-stage Alzheimer's victims. Dr. Omalu (a neuropathologist) said he believed that the damage was caused and/or hastened by the numerous concussions Waters sustained playing football.

    CNN has an article about an Owen Thomas an Ivy league kid who who committed suicide has revealed mild stages of a type of brain damage typically seen in retired or aging athletes and can cause neurobehavioral disorders and bizarre behavior.

    Dave Deureson, Junior Seau fit these patterns.
  10. 04 May '12 18:11
    Originally posted by quackquack
    It is simply not true that there is no evidence between brain injury and suicide. Here are just a few cases reported by a few sources.

    According to the NYT, a 2007 study conducted by the University of North Carolina's Center for the Study of Retired Athletes found that of the 595 retired N.F.L. players who recalled sustaining three or more concussions ...[text shortened]... robehavioral disorders and bizarre behavior.

    Dave Deureson, Junior Seau fit these patterns.
    You reference two cases. Duerson's post-mortem was inconclusive at best. There is simply only anecdotal information as of yet and nothing firm. Believe me if there were a connection CDC would be all over it. CNN and Wiki? I am sorry, but these hardly qualify as bastions of objectivity and since CNN, NYT and its minions would love to eradicate male athletics they are not trustworthy regarding their opinions. Did you know that Wiki frequently revises entries that may show the leftists/socialists/marxists in a negative light? I simply would never trust anything wiki posts and CNN/NYT has an agenda as well. The study you mention fails to attribute other potential sources for the increased incidence of depression. How about the multifold increase in depression in athletes whose careers are over? Is that also from concussions? Have these been taken into account as possible sources of lingering depression? The reality is that anyone who was formerly in the limelight has built in increased incidence for depression by simple removal from the limelight. Now all that said, the issue merits more study, but objective study sans the input of the CNN's, NYT's and other such sources of hugely biased "feelings" based garbage or unremovable political agendas. The matter should be left up to CDC, NIH or rigourous scientific studies.

    But back to Seau. Sources close to him express utter surprise at his suicide and do not report symptomatology of depression. How does that fit your theory?
  11. Standard member RBHILL
    Acts 13:48
    04 May '12 19:37
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3tlR-RsQxg&feature=youtube_gdata

    I hope he was a Christian.
  12. 04 May '12 20:46
    Originally posted by scacchipazzo
    You reference two cases. Duerson's post-mortem was inconclusive at best. There is simply only anecdotal information as of yet and nothing firm. Believe me if there were a connection CDC would be all over it. CNN and Wiki? I am sorry, but these hardly qualify as bastions of objectivity and since CNN, NYT and its minions would love to eradicate male athle ...[text shortened]... his suicide and do not report symptomatology of depression. How does that fit your theory?
    You don't see baseball or basketball players repeately comitting suicide at alarming rates. In fact you don't see kickers or quaterbacks committing suicide eiither. The difference is that they aren't spending 20 plus years leading with their heads.

    Duerson post-mortem was certainly NOT inconclusive. He suffered just about every symptom known from having too many repeated head injuries. Then he shot him self in the head, indicated that he wanted his head studie becuase he could no longer live from the head injuries that he sustained playing football. What exactly would be conclusive to you?

    They have not studied Seau's brain yet. But the fact that he comitted suicide is pretty good evidence of his mental state. I am sure they will find what they find with every person they study that they have brain injuries caused by repeated impact.

    There are people who don't believe in global warming or that there is no connection between cigarettes and lung cancer. There are people who think the American government caused 9/11 and that the idea that man walked on the moon is a hoax. The reality is that there is overwhelming evidence of the damage. For example, see the University of North Carolina's Center for the Study of Retired Athletes. It indicated that the depression rate of players who had 3+ concussions is an astounding 20.2, the Alzheimers rate and and similar memory rate is 19X as large as the normal rate for men age 19-49.
  13. Subscriber shortcircuit
    The Energizer
    04 May '12 21:27 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by quackquack
    You don't see baseball or basketball players repeately comitting suicide at alarming rates. In fact you don't see kickers or quaterbacks committing suicide eiither. The difference is that they aren't spending 20 plus years leading with their heads.

    Duerson post-mortem was certainly NOT inconclusive. He suffered just about every symptom known from ers rate and and similar memory rate is 19X as large as the normal rate for men age 19-49.
    You are wrong about Duerson. He shot himself in the chest so they would autopsy his brain.

    EDIT: Duerson's autopsy was NOT conclusive.
  14. 04 May '12 22:39
    Originally posted by shortcircuit
    You are wrong about Duerson. He shot himself in the chest so they would autopsy his brain.

    EDIT: Duerson's autopsy was NOT conclusive.
    The party that really matters, the NFL, is certainly worried because they know that the liability could be literally be big enough to ruin their sport.
  15. Subscriber shortcircuit
    The Energizer
    04 May '12 23:38 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by quackquack
    The party that really matters, the NFL, is certainly worried because they know that the liability could be literally be big enough to ruin their sport.
    Well, if the NFL goes down, so would the NHL and Professional Boxing to name a few.
    Technically even the MLB and NBA would be tapped....to a lesser degree.
    Think about it.

    There may be "some" correlation....just like overhead power lines or cell phones tied
    to cancer. Think either of those are going away any time soon?
    And they have closer links with those items than they do with concussions.