Originally posted by whodey Now that Jerry Sandusky has been found guilty it seems more and more is being revealed in terms of the overall coverup at the university. So if it is also found that there was a coverup, should Penn State get the NCAA death penalty?
I think its important to identify the problem correctly. The perp has been found guilty and will be sentenced. Paterno is no longer relevant. The problem is as I see it that the mystique of Penn State football outweighed the sexual predation that people in responsibility knew was going on. Their priorities were primitively bad. Provide them, and all the commentators looking on, with an unambiguous restatement of what we will permit when these two values collide.
Anything short of the death penalty is, to that extent, tolerant of child abuse. It is, in my view, an extension of the original crime.
But, from the NCAA, the one thing the ruling was not is a surprise.
Originally posted by stevemcc I think its important to identify the problem correctly. The perp has been found guilty and will be sentenced. Paterno is no longer relevant. The problem is as I see it that the mystique of Penn State football outweighed the sexual predation that people in responsibility knew was going on. Their priorities were primitively bad. Provide them, and all the co ...[text shortened]... sion of the original crime.
But, from the NCAA, the one thing the ruling was not is a surprise.
$$$$ outweighs justice. The Penn State program lines too many pockets for them to get rid of it no matter what they do.
So let me get this straight. The running back for Penn State escapes a school that has been penalized by the NCAA to go to USC, a team also penalized by the NCAA?
Originally posted by whodey So let me get this straight. The running back for Penn State escapes a school that has been penalized by the NCAA to go to USC, a team also penalized by the NCAA?
Makes sense to me......NOT!
Ovay, I sure hate USC. ðŸ˜
Redd left for USC to be able to play for a team with national championship aspirations. I don't like USC or Lane Kiffin, but the choice was his to make. If I were a Penn State player, I would have jumped ship as well. Knowing that a child was molested/raped in my locker room would make my skin crawl. Stop beating him up for furthering his college career by leaving a school that caters to pedophiles.
Originally posted by quackquack The Penn State situation seems similar to the effect of boycotting countries (South Africa was once a popular one to boycott) because we disagree with a policy. The individuals who live/ work there are often the ones who suffer yet they never instituted the objectionable policy. The rationale for boycots in South Africa was that people should not suppor ...[text shortened]... lain when they are punished for the failure of the institution to monitor individual behavior.
If the football program outside of Paterno and a handful of idiots were guilty and have been taken care of why punish innocent kids who had nothing to do with this fiasco? I really hope someone sues and ends this nonsense once and for all. SO let me get this straight. You advocate for an entire town, non football athletes supported by the football program, businesses and and and on to end up being punished for something they had nothing to do with at all? What kind of justice is this? RSA changed, but it has never been proven that the boycott was the cause for change rather more the sense of decency of a populace overwhelmingly in favor of effecting the right change. You are comparing apples and oranges. Just what exactly do you figure will change? Pedophiles will no longer molest children? Coverups will never again happen? Universities, long paragons of the erosion of values and architects of the undermining of societal mores will only entrench and devise newer better ways of covering up. Even top flight institutions like Harvard and Princeton harbor horrible people such as Noam Chomsky who advocates genocide and Peter Singer who advocates making abortion legal up to age two. Colorado U had the "Little Eichmans" professor. Universities abound with objectionable people. NCAA should stop trying to be a social engineering petri dish and concentrate on athletics. Sandusky, the real culprit, somehow gets a pass in all this and his guilt is diluted by finding so many alleged co-conspirators, the overwhelming majority of whom had never even heard the name Sandusky yet are being retributed against more harshly than most sex offenders ever are.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo If the football program outside of Paterno and a handful of idiots were guilty and have been taken care of why punish innocent kids who had nothing to do with this fiasco? I really hope someone sues and ends this nonsense once and for all. SO let me get this straight. You advocate for an entire town, non football athletes supported by the football progr ...[text shortened]... name Sandusky yet are being retributed against more harshly than most sex offenders ever are.
For the last time, the entire University was complicit. Then when the truth came out and they fired Jo Pa, the students protested and torched a car.
Originally posted by usmc7257 Redd left for USC to be able to play for a team with national championship aspirations. I don't like USC or Lane Kiffin, but the choice was his to make. If I were a Penn State player, I would have jumped ship as well. Knowing that a child was molested/raped in my locker room would make my skin crawl. Stop beating him up for furthering his college career by leaving a school that caters to pedophiles.
Yes, he went from one scandal ridden university to another. Nice.
My only hope is that USC finally has to face an SEC team in the NC and get crushed. They seem to always weasel out of it and play a Big Ten school or something in the Rose Bowl.
Originally posted by whodey For the last time, the entire University was complicit. Then when the truth came out and they fired Jo Pa, the students protested and torched a car.
Get it?
The entire university was complicit? Really? You know for a fact students assisted Sandusky in molesting young boys? So the loss of football revenue affecting all other sports is fine by you? Punishing an entire university for the actions of a handful of people is alright with you? Erasing games from the books and giving the most wins to Bobby Bowden with a great asterisk fine with you? Merely being a Penn St student makes you an accessory to child molestation? We indeed live in horribly troubling times when the actions a of a few taint a whole university. Torching of a car is stupid and reprehensible and should be dealt with accordingly via existing case law. Making up punishment not in the book as you go without recourse to appeal is un-American, reprehensible and unjust. Mind you I don't even like Penn St. Yet I would defend even USC were they dealt with unfairly.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo The entire university was complicit? Really? You know for a fact students assisted Sandusky in molesting young boys? So the loss of football revenue affecting all other sports is fine by you? Punishing an entire university for the actions of a handful of people is alright with you? Erasing games from the books and giving the most wins to Bobby Bowden wi ...[text shortened]... Mind you I don't even like Penn St. Yet I would defend even USC were they dealt with unfairly.
Don't be daft, the powers that be covered it up, and rumors I"m sure traveled around the university. No one came forward.
Originally posted by whodey Don't be daft, the powers that be covered it up, and rumors I"m sure traveled around the university. No one came forward.
It is a huge travesty to punish those who had nothing to do with the crime. No one was ever convicted of rumors. Plain and simple this will do nothing to stem child abuse. Society itself always tends to look the other way. As long as we have laws on the books allowing marriage as a "mitigating" circumstance in the prosecution of molestation we shall have institutional coverups. Why should institutions be dealt with more harshly than individuals? Why should the innocent pay at all? Plain silliness and overkill! In the meantime molesters go on with their dirty little business!
Originally posted by scacchipazzo It is a huge travesty to punish those who had nothing to do with the crime. No one was ever convicted of rumors. Plain and simple this will do nothing to stem child abuse. Society itself always tends to look the other way. As long as we have laws on the books allowing marriage as a "mitigating" circumstance in the prosecution of molestation we shall hav ...[text shortened]... lain silliness and overkill! In the meantime molesters go on with their dirty little business!
Typical BS. Penn State as an institution benefited from the cover up; if it had become public their recruiting would have been hurt, attendance might have slipped and millions of dollars might not have flowed into its coffers. Institutions can only act through the individuals put into positions of responsibility and if the institution cannot be punished for their evil acts, then the institution benefits from them.
Penn State got off light; if people don't want to share the punishment of an institution that committed evil acts, don't go to Penn State, attend their football games, etc. etc. Instead, the typical Penn State student and alumni just wants to cry about how they've been treated soooooooooooooo badly while still honoring someone with the moral failings of a Paterno. It's sickening.
Originally posted by no1marauder Typical BS. Penn State as an institution benefited from the cover up; if it had become public their recruiting would have been hurt, attendance might have slipped and millions of dollars might not have flowed into its coffers. Institutions can only act through the individuals put into positions of responsibility and if the institution cannot be punished ...[text shortened]... ooo badly while still honoring someone with the moral failings of a Paterno. It's sickening.
I would go a step farther. The NCAA is in the mix as well, because they know if the penalize Penn State too harshly, it would hurt the NCAA. That is why they are in no position to deal out justice. In a way, the NCAA is doing what Penn State did, which is damage control.
Originally posted by scacchipazzo [b]It is a huge travesty to punish those who had nothing to do with the crime. No one was ever convicted of rumors. Plain and simple this will do nothing to stem child abuse. Society itself always tends to look the other way.
Don't look now but its you looking the other way.
But I will agree with you on the point about 'erasing' winning games from the records. This is a childish, soviet-style attempt on the past of the NCAA to look tough, and its pathetic.
Originally posted by stevemcc Don't look now but its you looking the other way.
But I will agree with you on the point about 'erasing' winning games from the records. This is a childish, soviet-style attempt on the past of the NCAA to look tough, and its pathetic.
Not looking the other way at all. Sandusky is justly in jail, Paterno is dead. My point is the culprits need punishing, not the students. This was not a football issue. It was criminal in nature and outside the competency of NCAA. They make up punishment as they go. Indeed erasing wins is Soviet style and completely un-American. SMU was dealt even more harshly for lesser infractions. The reality is that NCAA needs to makes rules and outline punishment appropriate to the crimes/infractions committed and apply these in instances where the real culprits go unpunished. Sexual abuse is a serious crime and should be dealt with accordingly via existing case law. I'm afraid the PennSt punishment does not one iota to prevent child abuse.
Penn State
27 Jul '12 02:33
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