1. Standard memberRagnorak
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    24 Nov '08 07:39
    Can anybody put up a good argument as to why Phil Brown isn't the automatic choice, at this stage?

    D
  2. Standard memberSeitse
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    24 Nov '08 07:49
    For sentimental reasons I'd always pick Arsene. He works with the youngsters like nobody else does and the cup displays are to be treasured.

    But yeah, Hull is just too good not to pick Brown.
  3. Joined
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    24 Nov '08 08:56
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    Can anybody put up a good argument as to why Phil Brown isn't the automatic choice, at this stage?

    D
    as good as they've done its hard to look past harry redknapp as the best manager of the season so far...you just have to look at the way spurs are playing now and compare it with their results under ramos. plus if you needed any more proof as to the qualities of radknapp just look at the way portsmouth are starting to play without him.....how many matches have they won under adams? imo the man is the best manager in the prem outside the top 5.
  4. Standard memberRagnorak
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    24 Nov '08 09:38
    Originally posted by trev33
    as good as they've done its hard to look past harry redknapp as the best manager of the season so far...you just have to look at the way spurs are playing now and compare it with their results under ramos. plus if you needed any more proof as to the qualities of radknapp just look at the way portsmouth are starting to play without him.....how many matches have they won under adams? imo the man is the best manager in the prem outside the top 5.
    Um, Ramos was a total failure. Just because Redknapp is an improvement on him doesn't make him best manager in the league this season.

    As for Pompey's results...
    who was in charge when they lost to Braga 3-0, or to Chelsea 4-0 (twice) or to Man City 6-0?

    Pompey are a club in decline, Redknapp recognised that and jumped ship. Admittedly, he has an excellent record in the game, but I don't think he can seriously contend for Manager of the Season so far, purely based on the fact that he is an improvement on Ramos.

    D
  5. Standard memberRagnorak
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    24 Nov '08 09:42
    Originally posted by Seitse
    For sentimental reasons I'd always pick Arsene. He works with the youngsters like nobody else does and the cup displays are to be treasured.

    But yeah, Hull is just too good not to pick Brown.
    A number of reasons Wenger can't even be considered this season...
    1) weak decision to allow Gallas to remain as captain at the start of the season
    2) poor man-management skills which prevent him from keeping either squad players or top players (Senderos, Gilberto, Lehman, Hleb, that other fella who played in midfield last season)
    3) A string of poor results.
    4) Poor sportsmanship when he loses (again evident against Man City)
    5) He gives his players an excuse to lose by saying that other teams are too physical against his side.

    Sentimental reasons lack credibilty and rightly so. And, FYI, Liam Brady is youth team coach at Arsenal, not Wenger.

    D
  6. Joined
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    24 Nov '08 11:13
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    Um, Ramos was a total failure. Just because Redknapp is an improvement on him doesn't make him best manager in the league this season.

    As for Pompey's results...
    who was in charge when they lost to Braga 3-0, or to Chelsea 4-0 (twice) or to Man City 6-0?

    Pompey are a club in decline, Redknapp recognised that and jumped ship. Admittedly, he has an e ...[text shortened]... nager of the Season so far, purely based on the fact that he is an improvement on Ramos.

    D
    true ramos was a complete joke of manager but spurs has gone 6-1-1 since redknapp took charge...only something that chelsea and liverpool can beat. i'd say its an amazing improvement considering all that went on while ramos was manager. 2 points from 8 games from ramos, 13 from 6 from harry.

    while he was at portsmouth...who not forgetting only played barga because they won the fa cup last year sored 13 points in 8 game while redknapp was their including an impressive 3-0 away win at everton but only 6 in 6 since.

    for the season redknapp has 26 points, just 7 behind the leaders and 4 more points than hull have who lets not forget got beat 5-0 at home to 19th placed wigan. no one doubts that hull have had a fantastic first few months in the prem but will it continue....i don't think so.

    lets not forget that Portsmouth where heading for relegation when redknapp came in and ended up finishing with probably the best form in the league, won the fa cup last year with a top 10 finish and will now no doubt turn spurs into a top 10 side again and possibly top 6 in just a few months.

    the best manager of the season so far for me. and one of the best in the prem right now.
  7. Standard memberSeitse
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    24 Nov '08 11:431 edit
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    And, FYI, Liam Brady is youth team coach at Arsenal, not Wenger.

    D
    Argh! Rag, it's JUST football thread in a chess forum, dude, not the European Parliament! Loosen up and do the arrogant posting somewhere else, man. Chill.

    So, are you saying that Vela and the other youngsters' great cup performance is attributable to Brady and not Wenger?

    C'mon, Wenger may be all you say, but nobody spots and develops young talent as he does.
  8. Standard memberRagnorak
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    24 Nov '08 12:20
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Argh! Rag, it's JUST football thread in a chess forum, dude, not the European Parliament! Loosen up and do the arrogant posting somewhere else, man. Chill.

    So, are you saying that Vela and the other youngsters' great cup performance is attributable to Brady and not Wenger?

    C'mon, Wenger may be all you say, but nobody spots and develops young talent as he does.
    I'm totally relaxed. If you read my post as anything other than trying to be informative, then you need to change the little voice in your head.

    I believe, even in football discussion, that facts are important. If we disregard facts when we like, then we'd all be posting like Hopster (who maintains that Arsenal are presently in the top 4)

    Brady is widely known to be excellent at developing youth players. I suppose we could loosely attribute credit to Wenger for the youth players for appointing Brady in the first place, if that was the case. In fact Brady was there before Wenger.

    No doubt the performance against Wigan was brilliant, and Wenger needs to take credit for that, but I don't think you can base "The manager of the season so far" on 1 game in the early rounds of an insignificant cup.

    D
  9. Standard memberSeitse
    Doug Stanhope
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    24 Nov '08 12:36
    Originally posted by Ragnorak
    I'm totally relaxed. If you read my post as anything other than trying to be informative, then you need to change the little voice in your head.

    I believe, even in football discussion, that facts are important. If we disregard facts when we like, then we'd all be posting like Hopster (who maintains that Arsenal are presently in the top 4)

    Brady is ...[text shortened]... e manager of the season so far" on 1 game in the early rounds of an insignificant cup.

    D
    Stay away from the voices in my head, kid! 😠

    Now, seriously, as I stated before, Wenger can't get the claps over the Hull guy. However, as also stated, Wenger is always on my top (just mine; I wouldn't put him above Ferguson, Benitez or Scolari in a debate) because of how enjoyable the playing of his team is and, moreover, of how the youngsters are given chances and actually deliver good show.

    I truly don't know who personally develops the youngsters, if Brady or Arsene or both or none, but Wenger is the one putting them on the pitch so he's the "public face" for me, so to speak. These, of course, are not facts but merely observations re: how I enjoy their playing.

    I think many feel the same way, though. Don't you enjoy watching an Arsenal match? Of course, the fact that no results are achieved on the Gunner side is definitely a turn off, and ignites the old discussion of show vs. results.
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    24 Nov '08 12:38
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tarFsaOEzbw&feature=related

    how can you do anything but praise a man with a goal celebration like that?

    btw a blind monkey on laxatives could've spotted vela and dos santos at the under 17 world champs a few years back.

    i'd say its a join effort among whinger, brady and their coaches/scouts as to how their young players have continued to develop.
  11. Standard memberSeitse
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    24 Nov '08 12:41
    Originally posted by trev33
    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tarFsaOEzbw&feature=related

    how can you do anything but praise a man with a goal celebration like that?

    btw a blind monkey on laxatives could've spotted vela and dos santos at the under 17 world champs a few years back.

    i'd say its a join effort among whinger, brady and their coaches/scouts as to how their young players have continued to develop.
    Funny you mention that, because dos santos ended up being a puff IMO. Vela, on the other side, is blossoming, also IMO.

    Some skill took to distinguish which one of the two has the attitude problems.
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    24 Nov '08 12:48
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Funny you mention that, because dos santos ended up being a puff IMO. Vela, on the other side, is blossoming, also IMO.

    Some skill took to distinguish which one of the two has the attitude problems.
    i seem to remember dos santos being the better of the 2 in that tournament, if only slightly. but agree that vela is in what little that i've seen of him turning into a pretty decent player.

    i might be wrong but didn't dos santos go to barce?
  13. Standard memberSeitse
    Doug Stanhope
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    24 Nov '08 12:58
    Originally posted by trev33
    i seem to remember dos santos being the better of the 2 in that tournament, if only slightly. but agree that vela is in what little that i've seen of him turning into a pretty decent player.

    i might be wrong but didn't dos santos go to barce?
    Oh yes, as a huge promise, and became some sort of favorite for the fans during friendlies... until it was time for the real deal, when he just could not deliver. His attitude outisde the pitch, though, was proper of a Hollywood diva. And Tottenham bought him. There, he again became a favorite of the fans during the friendlies... until it was time for the real deal. I think he doesn't even play t all anymore.

    Vela is the other side of the coin. So far, at least.
  14. Joined
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    24 Nov '08 13:04
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Oh yes, as a huge promise, and became some sort of favorite for the fans during friendlies... until it was time for the real deal, when he just could not deliver. His attitude outisde the pitch, though, was proper of a Hollywood diva. And Tottenham bought him. There, he again became a favorite of the fans during the friendlies... until it was time for the rea ...[text shortened]... nk he doesn't even play t all anymore.

    Vela is the other side of the coin. So far, at least.
    he might turn out to be one of those players who just can't hake it when they're young but when they get a little older and find a manager they connect with turn into a quality player when it matters. or he could just take his signing on fees, get pissed and sleep with a much of models....neither sounds that bad 😀
  15. Standard memberRagnorak
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    24 Nov '08 13:06
    Originally posted by Seitse
    Stay away from the voices in my head, kid! 😠

    Now, seriously, as I stated before, Wenger can't get the claps over the Hull guy. However, as also stated, Wenger is always on [b]my
    top (just mine; I wouldn't put him above Ferguson, Benitez or Scolari in a debate) because of how enjoyable the playing of his team is and, moreover, of how the youngsters are ...[text shortened]... Gunner side is definitely a turn off, and ignites the old discussion of show vs. results.[/b]
    No doubt. It's very hard (impossible) to criticise Wenger for the football that he tries to get his team to play.

    Ferguson approaches games in the same way, and tries to build teams full of attackers. Recently, he has tried to make his team tougher to break down as well. In his European naivety, in thinking that his team could beat any other team in the world, he got beaten by teams like Barce, when Romario destroyed us.

    Since then, he's realised that sometimes you have to just sit tight, and take a draw, ala Barce away last season.

    Wenger hasn't got that in his locker, as evidenced by the fact that Spurs got late equalisers.

    Ferguson also is supreme at giving youth a chance, in fact more so than Wenger, IMHO. Ferguson has the funds to go out and buy ALL top players, but chooses to develop youngsters. (Nevilles, Beckham, Butt, Scholes, Giggs, Brown, Rossi, Campbell, Da Silvas, Evans, etc) Wenger doesn't have that luxury.

    D
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