Originally posted by telerion I think it's fair to credit his career as a phenomenal hitter, excellent base runner, and defensive player. To make him HR king though is too much in my book. Without serious juicing no way Bonds comes close to Hank's record.
There's also this talk of A-Rod breaking the record. Does A-Rod use banned performance enhancing substances? It wouldn't surprise me.
For years Baseball had no coherent policy on steroids. They essentially turned a blind eye and let a whole generation of players dabble in the stuff. As such, it become an integral part of baseball for that time period. It affected stats and game play just as the DH, lower pitching mounds, and smaller stadiums have affected them. You cannot isolate Bonds for punishment, or remove the effect steroids had on the game. You'd have to remove at least an entire decade of MLB stats from the record book across the board. Steroids were part of what baseball was then. If you want to go forward from there and draw a hard line against steroids in the future, then fine, but you can't go back and retroactively remove it from the past. So whether you like it or not, Bonds will beat out Aaron, and none of your complaints are going to change that fact.
Originally posted by Phlabibit You are a Barry apologist. "He did Not" you say? What makes you say this? The book "Game of Shadows" links Barry to steroid use, guess what Barry said when it came out.
"Where did this info come from?"
He did not say, "Lies!"
He did not say, "I'll sue you!"
You might need a smoking needle to prove in YOUR mind he cheated, however myself and ma ...[text shortened]... ing what you like, but sticking up for this cheat is an exercise in futility.
P-
Cheating, or trying to cheat, is an integral part of baseball. Are you going to put an asterisk next to everyone who has used a corked bat, or thrown a spitball? Are you going to remove Gaylord Perry from the Hall of Fame and strip him of his 314 wins because he obviously cheated by throwing a spitball? Of course not. But while Baseball has always had a clearly enforced rule against spitballs, it did not have one against steroids. MLB never enforced what rules they had in place and it led to an entire generation of steroid use by a wide array of players. So your condemnation of Bonds, but your acceptance of Perry, strikes me as more than a little inconsistent. I think the bulk of the problem people have with Bonds is not his alleged steroid use, but the fact that they just don't like him personally. He's not the most likable guy in the world, so the fans heap abuse on him that they wouldn't with other players.
Originally posted by rwingett For years Baseball had no coherent policy on steroids. They essentially turned a blind eye and let a whole generation of players dabble in the stuff. As such, it become an integral part of baseball for that time period. It affected stats and game play just as the DH, lower pitching mounds, and smaller stadiums have affected them. You cannot isolate Bonds fo ...[text shortened]... or not, Bonds will beat out Aaron, and none of your complaints are going to change that fact.
You certainly do not need to honor a guy like Bonds who achieved a record in large part because of cheating. Baseball's level of vilgence has nothing to do with Bonds knowingly violating the law in order to get a competetive advantage, There is no reason to cheer for cheat and even less reason to cheer for a selfish, surley individual.
Originally posted by leepound You certainly do not need to honor a guy like Bonds who achieved a record in large part because of cheating. Baseball's level of vilgence has nothing to do with Bonds knowingly violating the law in order to get a competetive advantage, There is no reason to cheer for cheat and even less reason to cheer for a selfish, surley individual.
I won't cheer him, but I won't condemn him either.
Whitey Ford was another famous cheat. Maybe we should take away all his World Series wins?
Originally posted by leepound You certainly do not need to honor a guy like Bonds who achieved a record in large part because of cheating. Baseball's level of vilgence has nothing to do with Bonds knowingly violating the law in order to get a competetive advantage, There is no reason to cheer for cheat and even less reason to cheer for a selfish, surley individual.
Ty Cobb was a selfish and surly individual as well. He also has the highest batting average in Baseball history, at .367, and is regarded as one of the greatest players of all time. So whether you 'like' Bonds or not is completely irrelevant. He is still the greatest player of our era.
Originally posted by rwingett Ty Cobb was a selfish and surly individual as well. He also has the highest batting average in Baseball history, at .367, and is regarded as one of the greatest players of all time. So whether you 'like' Bonds or not is completely irrelevant. He is still the greatest player of our era.
My favourite stat of Ty Cobb's: He stole home fifty times in his career.
Originally posted by rwingett For years Baseball had no coherent policy on steroids. They essentially turned a blind eye and let a whole generation of players dabble in the stuff. As such, it become an integral part of baseball for that time period. It affected stats and game play just as the DH, lower pitching mounds, and smaller stadiums have affected them. You cannot isolate Bonds fo ...[text shortened]... or not, Bonds will beat out Aaron, and none of your complaints are going to change that fact.
Steroids were banned from MLB in 1991. They did not test, but that isn't a green-light to do them.
There are many people who chose NOT to take steroids, they "played clean" and will say as much in sports interviews. They say that because they want us to know that, those kind of numbers are more legitimate.
When Barry's name gets in the books, or in the hall there will always be people like me and my son who are going to know he cheated to do it. If they don't put an asterisk, the fans will. If you are fine with cheating, that is your decision to be, but don't expect fans like me to agree that it was ok and the stats are real.
Originally posted by Phlabibit Steroids were banned from MLB in 1991. They did not test, but that isn't a green-light to do them.
There are many people who chose NOT to take steroids, they "played clean" and will say as much in sports interviews. They say that because they want us to know that, those kind of numbers are more legitimate.
When Barry's name gets in the books, or in ...[text shortened]... expect fans like me to agree that it was ok and the stats are real.
They are not.
P-
In my eyes, it's just another part of the rich and controversial history that is Baseball. Love it or hate it, it is what it is. I might be a bit more upset if I didn't know A-Rod would break the record in 7 or 8 years.
It is far from a given that A-rod will break the record. He is almost at 500 but, with the exception of Bonds, Sosa and McGuire (steriods) the overwhelming majority of players slow down at this point in their career due to age/ injuries.
Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks It is far from a given that A-rod will break the record. He is almost at 500 but, with the exception of Bonds, Sosa and McGuire (steriods) the overwhelming majority of players slow down at this point in their career due to age/ injuries.
He still needs more than 250 more homeruns. It just isn't that easy. If he averages 35 a year, it is more than 7 years. I just think people understimate the difficulty even for a guy as a great as A-rod.
Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks He still needs more than 250 more homeruns. It just isn't that easy. If he averages 35 a year, it is more than 7 years. I just think people understimate the difficulty even for a guy as a great as A-rod.
A-Rod's pretty good. Of course it wasn't always that way. He had a little loop in his swing that I straightened out for him. Oh, I also showed him how to sidearm to first from your knees.
Little stuff. Nothing complicated like pulling off a great submission from your back.
Originally posted by rwingett This anti-Bonds hysteria that has swept the nation is ridiculous. Without question he is the greatest baseball player of our era. His probable dalliance with steroids does nothing to mitigate that fact. The commissioner should embrace that inevitable record. Baseball should embrace it. And the American public should shut their sanctimonious mouths and embrace it as well.
A-Rod is the best baseball player of this era. He is hands down the best baseball player currently playing the game.
Bonds will break the record, but it wont last 10 years as ARod will hit 800+. Another thing, if Griffey had stayed healthy when he moved to the Reds we would be talking about him breaking Aaron's record and not the steroid freak in the Bay. Even still he will probably end his career with 650 or so HRs and thats without playing but a total of 2 full seasons, maybe 3, in the last 6
Who wants Barry to break the homerun record?
17 Jul '07 18:39
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