My Handicapped Tournament

Originally posted by fianchettochess
[b]fianchettochess checkmates Aiko in 8 moves and advances to the next round.

Game 5856211[/b]

I was distracted during those moves. I swear. And i was sick. And my computer went autopilot on me. Really.

out of interest, what rating if any would you feel that a 20 move target was achievable?

I'd have to say that there was a time, not very long ago, where Yuga could have easily checkmated me in under 20 moves regardless of my rating. It was more a function of recognizing the patterns he was setting up and countering them than my playing strength. I wasn't focused on offense at all and only put him in check on move 17 (I think it was) to force him to burn up one of his moves.

IMO, survival is more a function of having seen an attack before and knowing how to block it or at least blunt it, rather than the strength of the player. I know that doesn't help within the context of the tournament, but basing the number of moves purely on the difference between ratings isn't necessarily ever going to give you an accurate method of handicapping the stronger player. Maybe you could factor in total games played (or won) on RHP as a variable in the handicap to include an experience element because in my case at least that helped me last as long as I did.

Originally posted by sbacat
I'd have to say that there was a time, not very long ago, where Yuga [b]could have easily checkmated me in under 20 moves regardless of my rating. It was more a function of recognizing the patterns he was setting up and countering them than my playing strength. I wasn't focused on offense at all and only put him in check on move 17 (I think it was) to for ...[text shortened]... lude an experience element because in my case at least that helped me last as long as I did.[/b]

interesting but i don't think it would be possible to judge a target that way. after all we all have access to every game our opponent has played on rhp and if we wanted we could look at a few of their games to see what kind of an attack to expect.

the same for the attacker, see what way they usually set up their defence and set up an attack that would work against it.

the fact is that you can't really tell how someone is going to match up with someone, i might have a better chance of beating some of the 1400 rated players in the tourney in 37 moves than i do of beating the 1300 that i got.

but rating is the only thing that i can realistically go by.

Originally posted by trev33
the fact is that you can't really tell how someone is going to match up with someone, i might have a better chance of beating some of the 1400 rated players in the tourney in 37 moves than i do of beating the 1300 that i got.

but rating is the only thing that i can realistically go by.

I agree with your point completely. One of the more frustrating things about play is when I get pounded senseless by a 1000-rated player in one game and easily beat a 1500+ player in the next. Rating as an indicator of strength is all too frequently misleading. I'm tempted to ONLY play banded tournies and clan games because at least in those games, when my opponent turns out to be a chess wizard I only drop 16 points for the loss.

Back to the original point, I'm currently in a game with a 2100+ player and we just passed move 32. I'd estimate he's at least 5 if not 10 moves away from winning. To get a better metric of how many moves a stronger player should have to mate in, could we not randomly select say 50 completed games from the 2009 (or 2008, for that matter) Championship that have opponents of vastly different ratings and look at when mate was achieved, build a sliding scale from that for the next iteration of your handicapped tournie? That at least would be real world instead of theoretical. You'd assume that the weaker opponent playing black in each game was at least trying to win, rather than simply avoid mate.

Just a thought,
Steve

Originally posted by sbacat
Back to the original point, I'm currently in a game with a 2100+ player and we just passed move 32. I'd estimate he's at least 5 if not 10 moves away from winning. To get a better metric of how many moves a stronger player should have to mate in, could we not randomly select say 50 completed games from the 2009 (or 2008, for that matter) Championship that hav ...[text shortened]... ch game was at least trying to win, rather than simply avoid mate.

Just a thought,
Steve

the problem with that which i see is that the stronger player in those games (assuming they win) won't be caring that much about how many moves it takes to win but just to get the win. i don't know about you but every time i play if i see a chance to take a piece i'll take it rather than trying to gamble and win the game sooner, i'll take the piece and try to build an attack around my advantage, sometimes that leads to a lot of trading where i can take full advantage of my knight or even a pawn capture. with this tourney you're really forced to go for the balls, you may end up losing and you probably at some point will have to make a sack you wouldn't normally make to open up the game.

plus it would be a lot of work, you really would have to look at a lot of games at each rating gap to make it fair. and some of the ratings would've changed, for example a new player is 1300 at the start and loses to a 1700 player in 50 moves but when i look at the game the new player has improved to 1500. see what i mean?

i think the way i'm working out the targets is the fairest and indeed the easiest way it is now, i'm just not sure on the exact formula or if it should be a dual or not. i'll see how the other games turn out before deciding anything, i've been looking at a few of them and i wouldn't be surprised if out of the 12 games it was 6-6 between the higher and lower rated players. a 8-4 result might even make me change the formula for the next round, i don't know.

Originally posted by trev33
i wouldn't be surprised if out of the 12 games it was 6-6 between the higher and lower rated players. a 8-4 result might even make me change the formula for the next round, i don't know.

So if you end up with 8-4, the higher player might get a lower number of moves? I do understand what you're saying about the purpose of these games being different from a 'normal' game. For my own peace of mind, I'd love to come up with a metric that I could use in looking at those sneaky sub-1200 players and know for sure which ones were wolves in sheep's clothing.

Wishful thinking, I know...
😀

Originally posted by sbacat
So if you end up with 8-4, the higher player might get a lower number of moves? I do understand what you're saying about the purpose of these games being different from a 'normal' game. For my own peace of mind, I'd love to come up with a metric that I could use in looking at those sneaky sub-1200 players and know for sure which ones were wolves in sheep's clothing.

Wishful thinking, I know...
😀

i'm not sure, i'll see if i go through or not LOL 8-4 probably isn't to bad and i would leave it a round just to see but if it was 9-3 or worst i'll look at it and make a change.

what i want is a 6-6 split.

maybe there should be a forum somewhere where we can post the names of the sub 1200s to look out for 😀

i advance to the next round with a win over duecer in 26 moves (target 37 moves)

Game 5851817

i think the dropped bishop cost him the game, otherwise i would've had a harder time. surprised i was able to win inside 37 moves, it was really fun playing a more open and attacking game. mate or be mated 🙂

we also played this one for shyts and giggles with me as black but that was a lost cause after 21 moves and we decided on a draw.

Game 5851813

Originally posted by trev33

it was really fun playing a more open and attacking game. mate or be mated 🙂

Congratulations on advancing. I suppose it's possible your playing style might change if you played enough games like this. Looking for killer moves more quickly rather than develop your offense and defense structures the way you normally would. As playing blitz might help you play faster, playing the handicap games as white might make you play tighter, more efficiently; and playing handicap as black might help build defensive skills.

I am advancing, as I have won Game 5852765 18 moves.

It was fun to play a more open style, but IMO I got a little lucky to win so fast. It is rare that I beat a 1500 level player in 18 moves.

Originally posted by sbacat
Congratulations on advancing. I suppose it's possible your playing style might change if you played enough games like this. Looking for killer moves more quickly rather than develop your offense and defense structures the way you normally would. As playing blitz might help you play faster, playing the handicap games as white might make you play tighter, more efficiently; and playing handicap as black might help build defensive skills.

thanks. i think i'm not going to start many new rated games here for a while. i'm going to concentrate on unrated games where i'll set myself a target to win or avoid defeat. obviously my opponent won't know what i'm doing so they are always playing for the win. plus might mess around with some blitz, haven't done that in a while.

Originally posted by clandarkfire
I am advancing, as I have won Game 5852765 18 moves.

It was fun to play a more open style, but IMO I got a little lucky to win so fast. It is rare that I beat a 1500 level player in 18 moves.

i think we all need a bit of luck to win the games inside the target. looks like we've been getting it though, that's 4-1 in favor of the higher rated players.

Originally posted by trev33
that's 4-1 in favor of the higher rated players.

So my game with Yuga is the only one where the lower rated player won? That is surprising. Perhaps I'm the anomaly after all.

I'm the lower rated player in my game with Coquette, and she'll mate in 2 moves, but it's too late, so it's a win for me. 🙂

Originally posted by MissOleum
I'm the lower rated player in my game with Coquette, and she'll mate in 2 moves, but it's too late, so it's a win for me. 🙂

congrats

Game 5852639

i looked at that game for about an hour when you sent it to me after 27 moves trying to find a forced mate but could only see one possibility that needed a mistake from you so i'm not surprised you got through.

i'm pleased with how the handicap turn out in this and in Thos game.

4-2 higher rated players lead.

2 of the games haven't started yet because of players going awol so i might have to look for a couple of extra players if they don't show up soon.

the rest have been started but only one is at an advanced stage.