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Tournaments Forum

Tournaments Forum

  1. 16 Aug '16 01:57
    When entering tournaments with rating bands it's likely your opponents are going to be of a similar strength to yourself, and for many, including myself, this is what we want.
    But at a certain level they all become 1650+, 1700+, 1800+ or similar, meaning I could find myself up against players rated 2400 or more, against whom I realistically have no chance.
    Personally I'm discouraged from entering these 1700+ tournaments and the like because of this.
    Could tournaments at least be banded up to, say, 2000, and then have 2000+ ?
  2. Subscriber venda
    Dave
    16 Aug '16 11:01
    Originally posted by Tommovich
    When entering tournaments with rating bands it's likely your opponents are going to be of a similar strength to yourself, and for many, including myself, this is what we want.
    But at a certain level they all become 1650+, 1700+, 1800+ or similar, meaning I could find myself up against players rated 2400 or more, against whom I realistically have no chance ...[text shortened]... e because of this.
    Could tournaments at least be banded up to, say, 2000, and then have 2000+ ?
    There's a few problems with banded tournaments.
    A couple are sandbagging -where players deliberately lose games to lower their current rating which enables them to enter lower banded tournaments and "match up" to unsuspecting players in clan games if the other leaders aren't careful, but the problem with what you are saying is that narrower banded tournaments are difficult to fill and so never get started.
  3. 16 Aug '16 16:31
    Originally posted by venda
    There's a few problems with banded tournaments.
    A couple are sandbagging -where players deliberately lose games to lower their current rating which enables them to enter lower banded tournaments and "match up" to unsuspecting players in clan games if the other leaders aren't careful, but the problem with what you are saying is that narrower banded tournaments are difficult to fill and so never get started.
    Hi venda,
    It's to be expected that as the rating band rises there will be less players with that tournament entry rating, so it's a fair point you make that they will become more difficult to fill.
    My solution to this would be to simply widen the bands at the top end.
    For example: I've just clicked on the available tournaments page and the Banded Threesomes goes up in 50 point increments, 1300-1350, 1350-1400 up to 1650-1700, but then it suddenly goes 1700+, which means that it effectively becomes 1700-2500, a rating band of 800 points, not 50.
    As you say it will become harder to fill as we reach these higher ratings, but instead of the next band being 1700-1750, why couldn't it be 1700-1800?
    And then maybe 1800-2000, then 2000+.
    My guess is that it would take no longer for a 1700-1800 tournament to fill than it would for a 1650-1700 tournament as the entry rating is doubled.
    There's no reason I can see for the rigidity of all the bands being exactly 50 points up to a certain point where it jumps to an 800 point gap.
    If there are less players with those ratings, just widen the bands.
    And of course what I propose applies also to lower rated tournaments.
    At the time of writing this the 0-1300 tournament has 17 out of 18 entrants, far more than any of the others.
    It suggests that there shouldn't be a problem filling, for example, a 1200-1300 tournament, and a 1000-1200 tournament.
    As it is at the moment there will probably be just as many mismatches in the 0-1300 as there will be in the 1700+.
  4. Subscriber Kewpie
    chess dummy
    20 Aug '16 04:09 / 1 edit
    I'm always scratching for tournaments to enter, too, even though I'm in the biggest group (0-1200). We used to have 0-1150, now it seems to be 0-1200 or even 0-1300. Yet the 0-1150 group would always fill up in an hour.
    Bottom end needs to be 0-1100, then 200-point bands all the way up to 2100, to give everyone who wants to participate a reasonable chance of getting games.

    Given the way that ratings fluctuate even within a few games, 200-point bands aren't unreasonable.
  5. 20 Aug '16 12:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Kewpie
    I'm always scratching for tournaments to enter, too, even though I'm in the biggest group (0-1200). We used to have 0-1150, now it seems to be 0-1200 or even 0-1300. Yet the 0-1150 group would always fill up in an hour.
    Bottom end needs to be 0-1100, then 200-point bands all the way up to 2100, to give everyone who wants to participate a reasonable chanc ...[text shortened]... ven the way that ratings fluctuate even within a few games, 200-point bands aren't unreasonable.
    I agree that bottom end needs to be lowered and top end needs to be raised, and widening the bands seems to make sense.
    I have seen no tournaments where the top end is higher than 1800+.
    I'm currently hovering just above this, and it means there is no tournament I can enter in which I might not potentially come up against a 2400+ player.
    This is not the point of banded tournaments, which is presumably to create a more level playing field.
    Raising the top end to 2000+ or 2100+ and widening the bands so more players are able to enter and fill them up would seem to be a solution.
  6. Subscriber Kewpie
    chess dummy
    26 Aug '16 09:00 / 1 edit
    I'm stuck again with no options. Should we go to Site Ideas where we might get more attention?
  7. Subscriber Kewpie
    chess dummy
    28 Aug '16 07:52
    And again, nothing for me. This is what I'd like to see for banded tournaments:
    0-1000
    1001-1100
    1101-1200
    1201-1300
    1301-1400
    1401-1500
    1501-1600
    1601-1700
    1701-1800
    1801-1900
    1901-2000
    2001-2100
    2101-2200
    2201+

    plus or minus one band at the top, depending on the player numbers available.

    Would others care to express a different set of preferences?
  8. 28 Aug '16 10:59
    Originally posted by Kewpie
    And again, nothing for me. This is what I'd like to see for banded tournaments:
    0-1000
    1001-1100
    1101-1200
    1201-1300
    1301-1400
    1401-1500
    1501-1600
    1601-1700
    1701-1800
    1801-1900
    1901-2000
    2001-2100
    2101-2200
    2201+

    plus or minus one band at the top, depending on the player numbers available.

    Would others care to express a different set of preferences?
    I do believe more attention needs to be paid to having suitable bands.
    The latest Octets appeared on the 15th August, and at the moment there are eight unfilled:
    1250-1275,1275-1300, 1300-1325, 1325-1350, 1350-1375, 1500-1525, 1525-1550, and 1550-1575.
    Some of these are just half full despite being open for nearly two weeks.
    The 0-1150 meanwhile, filled up and started on the 18th August.

    It shows a clear imbalance, the result of which is that players such as yourself cannot find any tournaments to enter, and meanwhile those who have entered the tournaments listed above aren't actually playing in them, as they're sitting around waiting for them to fill up and start.
    Let's hope they don't get bored and withdraw.

    The bands you propose look reasonable to me.
    If they are harder to fill at the top end, just widen the band to 200 points, maybe once you go above 1800.
  9. Subscriber Russ On Vacation
    RHP Code Monkey
    29 Aug '16 18:04
    Give me another day - we will have calculated distributions in future.

    For example, if a tournament is to have 5 bands, those 5 bands will be a true reflection of current subscriber's tournament entry rating.

    No more guesswork.

    As with most tweaks like this, it really should have been this way all along.
  10. Subscriber Russ On Vacation
    RHP Code Monkey
    30 Aug '16 11:53
    This is now live, and will be used going forward if successful.
  11. Subscriber Kewpie
    chess dummy
    30 Aug '16 23:18
    I've just signed up for one of the new ones. It looks great - the rating bands are completely flexible so we don't keep hitting the same bunch of people all the time. Thanks Russ.
  12. 31 Aug '16 10:12
    Thanks Russ.
    I appreciate you taking the time to have a look at all this.
  13. Standard member Steve45
    Garry Kasparov
    17 Sep '16 11:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Tommovich
    When entering tournaments with rating bands it's likely your opponents are going to be of a similar strength to yourself, and for many, including myself, this is what we want.
    But at a certain level they all become 1650+, 1700+, 1800+ or similar, meaning I could find myself up against players rated 2400 or more, against whom I realistically have no chance ...[text shortened]... e because of this.
    Could tournaments at least be banded up to, say, 2000, and then have 2000+ ?
    I've just looked at page 1 of the open tournaments, and it seems to me that not much has changed. For example
    Quintets 1740+
    Threesomes 1740+
    Quartets 1790+
    Hardcore Grand 1685+
    Duel 1685+
    Quartets 1685 +
    Hardcore Grand V 1740+

    The original post was highlighting the issue of 2000+ players being able to enter tourney,s with a bottom line TER of 1600 or 1700ish+. Why would anyone rated 1600 to 1800ish enter these tourney,s when there,s a possibility that you will be drawn against the Cenerentola,s of this world.

    Steve
  14. 19 Sep '16 15:40
    Originally posted by Steve45
    I've just looked at page 1 of the open tournaments, and it seems to me that not much has changed. For example
    Quintets 1740+
    Threesomes 1740+
    Quartets 1790+
    Hardcore Grand 1685+
    Duel 1685+
    Quartets 1685 +
    Hardcore Grand V 1740+

    The original post was highlighting the issue of 2000+ players being able to enter tourney,s with a bottom line TER of 1600 ...[text shortened]... n there,s a possibility that you will be drawn against the Cenerentola,s of this world.

    Steve
    Yes, I've just checked my 'tournaments available' page, and of the eight banded tournaments I'm currently eligible to enter, in all eight of them I could potentially end up playing 2400+ players.
    I acknowledge it is tricky; raise the band and maybe they will take too long to fill up. I suspect there is no 'perfect solution', and whatever system is put into place will be unsatisfactory for some.
    But I won't be entering any of these tournaments, as I have no interest in playing opponents who are potentially rated 600+ points more than me.
  15. Standard member Benjamin Barker
    Demon Barber
    22 Sep '16 07:14
    Originally posted by Tommovich
    When entering tournaments with rating bands it's likely your opponents are going to be of a similar strength to yourself, and for many, including myself, this is what we want.
    But at a certain level they all become 1650+, 1700+, 1800+ or similar, meaning I could find myself up against players rated 2400 or more, against whom I realistically have no chance ...[text shortened]... e because of this.
    Could tournaments at least be banded up to, say, 2000, and then have 2000+ ?
    I totally agree with this. I don't see the point of the tournaments that have 2999 as a top rating limit?! I would like to see something more reasonable like 2000. You could always set up other tournaments for 2200+ ratings but I imagine most players don't wish to enter tournaments they only have a snowball's chance in hell of winning!