False religion versus the gospel of Jesus Christ

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
And in an atheistic framework all immoral acts are merely a matter of opinion anyway so what one atheist may regard as immoral is not necessarily immoral for another atheist.

Again, your own religious book says that God's law is written on the hearts of men and witnessed by their conscience. (Even for Gentiles). How then, if an atheist follows his conscience in regards to what is and what isn't immoral, can this morality simply be a matter of individual opinion?

Are the Romans verses referenced erroneous?! - You have said once that they were taken out of context but have given no explanation for that claim. Until you do, your comments are nonsensical.

Originally posted by FMF
I am not adrift. You should speak for yourself.

This is the hard edge of the question, isn't it?

I mean to look 'behind the curtain', as it were. I'm trying to understand you and your 'philosophy'. You say you have no answers to the questions that plague all of mankind. And yet you also claim to not be adrift. If I had questions that I do not have answers to, then yes, I would be adrift. There is no shame in this. This feeling of having no answers to perhaps the biggest questions cannot help but cause us to feel adrift. What anchors you, if you have no answers to your questions? Do you not feel a need for these answers? Or do you not have the same curiosity that moves all humans to seek answers?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Again, your own religious book says that God's law is written on the hearts of men and witnessed by their conscience. (Even for Gentiles).

Hard wiring perhaps. 😉

Originally posted by FMF
The idea that God has revealed Himself to humanity by way of ancient Hebrew mythology strikes me as utterly preposterous (or more to the point, mundane and parochial). Maybe the "gut feeling"/intuitive/hard wiring thing is all the "revelation" that we're going to get. Other "evidence" will be weighed when it emerges. I am open minded.

Maybe you are not as open minded as you think you are. The fact that you refer to the scriptures as 'ancient Hebrew mythology' seems to indicate some form of prejudice on your part.

Originally posted by Suzianne
You say you have no answers to the questions that plague all of mankind. And yet you also claim to not be adrift. If I had questions that I do not have answers to, then yes, I would be adrift. There is no shame in this.

I am not claiming that there is any "shame" in you turning to religion in order to not feel adrift.

Originally posted by FMF
I am not claiming that there is any "shame" in you turning to religion in order to not feel adrift.

You seem to be harboring some hard feelings towards religious people. Did your priest slip up with the circumcision when you were a kid? 😀

Originally posted by Suzianne
What anchors you, if you have no answers to your questions?

What anchors me? My spouse, my children, my extended family, my neighbours, my community, my work, my colleagues, the people my work helps, my plans, my memories, my intellectual life, my emotional life and so on and so forth. If such things wouldn't be enough for you, fair enough. But I do not feel adrift.

Or do you not have the same curiosity that moves all humans to seek answers?

Like I said, I have been reading about things like religion and philosophy all my adult years and longer. I find it very interesting and I have heaps of curiosity.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Maybe you are not as open minded as you think you are. The fact that you refer to the scriptures as 'ancient Hebrew mythology' seems to indicate some form of prejudice on your part.

I think it sums up what the scriptures actually are. If you want to characterize the fact that I find them unconvincing as being the result of prejudice or "hard feelings", then go for it. Everybody spins things, I suppose, but you are going to make no headway by trying to be patronizing.

Originally posted by FMF
I think it sums up what the scriptures actually are. If you want to characterize the fact that I find them unconvincing as being the result of prejudice or "hard feelings", then go for it. Everybody spins things, I suppose, but you are going to make no headway by trying to be patronizing.

What about the scriptures do you find unconvincing?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
What about the scriptures do you find unconvincing?

I'm not typing a load of stuff about that now. I have posted maybe 25,000-30,000 times on this forum, many of those posts were interactions with Christians and, more often than not, in connection with claims they made about scripture and about how it relates to the reality in which we all live.

If your curiosity is genuine, then take a look at that posting history. If not, you'll have to wait and see what comes up - case by case - in my next 30,000 posts. You are certainly not going to reach out through my screen, grab me, and make me type a whole load of stuff to answer your question at this moment in time. 😉

Originally posted by FMF
What anchors me? My spouse, my children, my extended family, my neighbours, my community, my work, my colleagues, the people my work helps, my plans, my memories, my intellectual life, my emotional life and so on and so forth. If such things wouldn't be enough for you, fair enough. But I do not feel adrift.

[b]Or do you not have the same curiosity that moves ...[text shortened]... losophy all my adult years and longer. I find it very interesting and I have heaps of curiosity.

But where are the answers? Humans are all born with curiosity. It moves us to seek out answers, even to the most mundane of questions. "What is over that hill?" moves us to seek out ways to find out. Tame a wild horse to ride over the hill to find out. Create a device to enable us to speak with people over the hill to find out. Perhaps "adrift" is too strong a word to describe the feeling of "not knowing". But humans eventually became "Homo sapiens", "wise man", "understanding man", "knowing man". We are driven to know. We are driven to "find out". We think, therefore we are.

This is what causes me to ask, in your idea of God as 'unknowable', what is the point? If we cannot "know", what is the point?

Don't you want to know? Doesn't "not knowing" burn inside you, and cause you to seek out an answer? Perhaps you've already been "seeking" a long time and have resigned yourself to always be "seeking".

EDIT: Perhaps that is enough for you, simply, to seek. I don't know. I was hoping to "find out" more about what drives you. But now it is late, and I must go to bed.

Originally posted by Suzianne
But where are the answers? Humans are all born with curiosity. It moves us to seek out answers, even to the most mundane of questions.

I don't have the answers. I don't think you do either. It's no threat to my well being or existence that neither you nor I have the answers. As for the issue of curiosity - gosh, how many times are you going to ask the same thing? - like I said to you before, I have been reading books on religion and philosophy and related fields my whole life long. A lack of curiosity is not an issue in my life.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Maybe you are not as open minded as you think you are. The fact that you refer to the scriptures as 'ancient Hebrew mythology' seems to indicate some form of prejudice on your part.

'Ancient Hebrew mythology' sounds like a pretty accurate summary to me. I've never understood how you zealots can aggrandize your own scripture while blithely dismissing that of other religions.

Originally posted by Suzianne

But where are the answers? Humans are all born with curiosity. It moves us to seek out answers, even to the most mundane of questions. "What is over that hill?" moves us to seek out ways to find out. Tame a wild horse to ride over the hill to find out. Create a device to enable us to speak with people over the hill to find out. Perhaps "adrift" is too strong a word to describe the feeling of "not knowing". But humans eventually became "Homo sapiens", "wise man", "understanding man", "knowing man". We are driven to know. We are driven to "find out". We think, therefore we are.

You're not saying anything controversial here or anything that I inclined to dispute. Do you think you are? If you believe your Christian faith is your version of "...eventually became "Homo sapiens", "wise man", "understanding man", "knowing man". We are driven to know. We are driven to "find out". We think, therefore we are..." then I get it it.

I get what you are suggesting about yourself. I really do You and I are not the same. You are a Christian and I am not. If you think you are more curious and more open minded than me - and if you think your Christian beliefs are evidence of that, to your way of thinking - then that's fine by me.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Don't you want to know? Doesn't "not knowing" burn inside you, and cause you to seek out an answer? Perhaps you've already been "seeking" a long time and have resigned yourself to always be "seeking".

Are you really asking me about my curiosity YET AGAIN? 😛