False religion versus the gospel of Jesus Christ

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
It's not really science that enables me to be absolutely certain that the bible is nothing at all to do with god. And yes, you may well be right, god and science may well be able to coexist harmoniously, or more harmoniously than most people assume (not sure that most people assume that they can't though).

Well, the problems with a "God vs. Science" mentality seem more apparent when one side or the other gets extreme about it. Witness the "Creation vs. Evolution" arguments. Totally stupid, IMO, and sometimes it seems they only continue because the two sides enjoy fighting about it and they refuse to accept anything but 100% capitulation and sometimes "pride" enters the picture, too, so I guess the fighting will continue.

Well, at least you allowed me to make my point, and with that, I'll back out of the conversation you two are having about it.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Well, I do know "more" than I did before.

And now you are back to defensive, "closed-off" mode. I get it.

I don't endorse it, but I get it.

"Closed off"? I have been saying the things I said on the last few pages for years, often in posts addressed directly to you. How is it you think I'm being "defensive"?

Originally posted by Suzianne
As an aside, I believe your sense of what the Romans passages are saying is in error.

I don't exactly have time for this right now, but I thought so then, and I still think so. I'll go back later and look at the posts in question again.

As I say, no one yet has really offered an alternative understanding. Seems quite clear cut to me. (And taken in context).

Originally posted by Suzianne
Well, the problems with a "God vs. Science" mentality seem more apparent when one side or the other gets extreme about it. Witness the "Creation vs. Evolution" arguments. Totally stupid, IMO, and sometimes it seems they only continue because the two sides enjoy fighting about it and they refuse to accept anything but 100% capitulation and sometimes "pride" enters the picture, too, so I guess the fighting will continue.

You find it totally stupid for me to not want unscientific nonsense to be taught as science in schools?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
As I say, no one yet has really offered an alternative understanding. Seems quite clear cut to me. (And taken in context).

"... really offered an alternative understanding"
To what?

Originally posted by KellyJay
"... really offered an alternative understanding"
To what?

We were discussing the verses in Romans that states the Law of God is written on the hearts of men (including Gentiles) and witnessed by their conscience. In other words, (unless you can provide an alternative understanding?) if an unbeliever acts in accordance with his conscience, he is adhering to God's law, despite his lack of belief.

Fetchmyjunk said 'immoral acts are merely a matter of opinion' for atheists. - How can that be, when an atheist adhering to his own conscience is unwittingly adhering to God's own morality?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
We were discussing the verses in Romans that states the Law of God is written on the hearts of men (including Gentiles) and witnessed by their conscience. In other words, (unless you can provide an alternative understanding?) if an unbeliever acts in accordance with his conscience, he is adhering to God's law, despite his lack of belief.

Fetchmyju ...[text shortened]... e, when an atheist adhering to his own conscience is unwittingly adhering to God's own morality?

I believed I agreed with that but don't think you've thought that through. As I view that verse
we see two things, one there is a law of God, and two that man by nature knows how man
should act. This doesn't let man off the hook, it pretty much seals man's fate in that even if
man has never been exposed to God's law he will not have an excuse in breaking it.

There is also the fact that man has his own vision of what is right or wrong, and he will
hold himself and others accountable to that. This is the point that C.S. Lewis made in
his book "Mere Christianity" that man argues with other men about who is right and who
is wrong, because not only do we both grasp there is a right and wrong, but we also
realize the other guy also knows it.

So if we live our lives in such a way that throughout our lives we never break our own laws
and that we also hold others to our own laws we will be righteous by our own laws thereby
excusing ourselves before man and God. The issue all people are going to suffer with this
is that each day we are confronted with actions and words, and each time we make a
judgment call we will be setting ourselves to be justified or condemned. Judgment boils
down to everything we do in our lives, including every word spoken.

You think you know anyone who is going to pass this judgment call on living righteously
throughout their whole lives?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I believed I agreed with that but don't think you've thought that through. As I view that verse
we see two things, one there is a law of God, and two that man by nature knows how man
should act. This doesn't let man off the hook, it pretty much seals man's fate in that even if
man has never been exposed to God's law he will not have an excuse in breaking ...[text shortened]... one who is going to pass this judgment call on living righteously
throughout their whole lives?

The Bible is saying that these people will be judged.
What is the problem with accepting it?

Originally posted by Rajk999
The Bible is saying that these people will be judged.
What is the problem with accepting it?

Nothing that is what I said.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
As I say, no one yet has really offered an alternative understanding. Seems quite clear cut to me. (And taken in context).

Well, what I said is that your sense of what it says is in error.

I meant to address this after work last night but I never got to it. I still want to weigh in on this, but it's going to have to wait until I have a real keyboard to write on since I'm now at work.

Originally posted by twhitehead
You find it totally stupid for me to not want unscientific nonsense to be taught as science in schools?

Where did I say this??

For your information, I believe in my country's Constitution, specifically, the Establishment clause of the First Amendment, which some take to mean "the separation of church and state". I don't believe that religion of any kind belongs in US schools. If you do not live in the US, then your local laws take precedence, and I'm in no position to affect that in any way, and that renders the entire argument rather moot.

What I do find stupid is arguing about it on an internet message board when clearly both sides are right.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Well, what I said is that your sense of what it says is in error.

I meant to address this after work last night but I never got to it. I still want to weigh in on this, but it's going to have to wait until I have a real keyboard to write on since I'm now at work.

Pfft, 'real keyboard.'

If you were truly dedicated to the cause you would fashion one out of random vegetables.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
The same way sir you can be absolutely sure that penguins didn't invent the game of monopoly.

Oh yes the Bible and monopoly have a lot in common don't they?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Oh yes the Bible and monopoly have a lot in common don't they?

The bible folks TRIED to make it a religious monopoly but failed. That is the problem with your religion. It is NOT a monopoly and if there was a real god involved, it would have known all about the future challenges to its relgion and would have dealt with the ususpers and the fact that never happened is evidence enough to tell me ALL these religions are false, all at each other's throats for no reason other than they THINK their religion is the TRUE religion and the others, ALL of them, are false.

The thing is, they cannot all be right. On the other hand they sure as HELL can be wrong, 100% wrong in that the entire modern set of religions are ALL man made and no deity need apply, men are quite capable of making up religions.

If you don't think so, look at scientology.

Originally posted by sonhouse
The bible folks TRIED to make it a religious monopoly but failed. That is the problem with your religion. It is NOT a monopoly and if there was a real god involved, it would have known all about the future challenges to its relgion and would have dealt with the ususpers and the fact that never happened is evidence enough to tell me ALL these religions are f ...[text shortened]... ly, men are quite capable of making up religions.

If you don't think so, look at scientology.

And how do you know for sure that one of them cannot be right?